Q:300D or 10D

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by [email protected], Nov 17, 2003.


  1. Yet more advantages of the SD9. You can use really cheap glass and it makes
    your images look better. And it's more forgiving of bad focusing. Why would
    anyone bother with a Bayer?
     
    Manfred von Richthofen, Dec 17, 2003
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  2. Iv@n

    Bill M Guest

    Perhaps because they work as intended instead of capturing detail that
    isn't even in the original scene and don't make natural objects appear
    to be made of wax??
     
    Bill M, Dec 17, 2003
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  3. Iv@n

    JPS Guest

    In message <>, I,
    So did I! It should be "awful". I meant to check, because 2 'l's
    didn't look right, but I posted anyway.
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 17, 2003
  4. ....1/3rd spectrum...
    6MP-interpolated Bayer = 1.5MP
     
    George Preddy, Dec 18, 2003
  5.  
    George Preddy, Dec 18, 2003
  6. Iv@n

    Junque Guest

    Incorrect, the 6.3 million pixel Bayer equipped Canon 10D detects
    luminance at 6.3 million locations across the image plain. The SD9 only
    detects luminance at 3.4 million locations across the image plain.
     
    Junque, Dec 18, 2003
  7. Iv@n

    Junque Guest

    Incorrect it measures red, blue and green using well defined filters,
    unlike the SD9 which uses ill defined holes.
     
    Junque, Dec 18, 2003
  8. Iv@n

    JPS Guest

    In message <brs956$5a1$>,
    No matter how you like to make the situation look with words, the 10D
    renders more accurate color than the SD9 in most cases.
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 19, 2003
  9. Foveon measures all of the light directly. Bayers all filter certain colors
    using a very cheap piece of tinted plastic placed in front of the sensor.
    That piece of cheap plastic is always the optical quality limiting factor,
    regardless of lens choice.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 19, 2003
  10. Popular Photography Magazine and dprevie.com disagree with you, but even if
    you assume they are similar the Canon sensor is way too blurry for those
    interested in high end imaging.

    That's why it's almost impossible to find a full size 10D image on pbase,
    from a mere 150,000 10D images. Virtually all SD9/10 pics are posted full
    size. The 10S only has 1.5MP of discrete color data interpolated to 6M
    output pixels, but judging from the resolutions people actually post on
    pbase, the sensor has much more serious problems than it's explicit
    technical inferiority to the Foveon's 70% higher sensor count.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 19, 2003
  11. Which is why no one here will post full size10D images, all refuse for fear
    of ridicule, including yourself, saying things like "It isn't fair."
     
    George Preddy, Dec 19, 2003
  12. Iv@n

    JPS Guest

    In message <bruvkb$qb7$>,
    What does "blurry" (not that I think the 10D is "blurry") have to do
    with accurate color? You seem to be incapable of tracking any trains of
    thought except your own little ones that run in a circle under a
    Christmas tree.
    .... and I've already explained to you why. The SD9 appeals to people
    who can't tell the difference between artifical and real image
    sharpness. The artifacts created by the SD9 and SPP are very clear at a
    1:1 viewing, and not as clear when downsized, unless you sue the Nearest
    Neighbor algorithm and maybe some edge sharpening. The SD9 images are
    3.43MP, so downsizing them with Nearest Neighbor would make the
    artifacts very large compared to the size of the image.
    6.3MP luminance, and 1.5MP chrominance (which is far more than the
    eye/brain can take advantage of with normal viewing sizes).
    I don't see any problems with good lenses and people who know how to use
    their cameras. We're free to sharpen our images if the display
    resolution calls for it, unlike the SD9/SPP arrangement where you
    haven't much of a choice but to accept sharp artifacts, and the default
    "0" sharpening gives quite a sharpening boost.

    --
     
    JPS, Dec 19, 2003
  13. Iv@n

    JPS Guest

    In message <bruvan$q8n$>,
    Foveon has a lot of randomness to the way in which it filters
    frequencies of light. The lack of microlenses on the SD9 causes the
    Foveon to miss 70% of the potential light that strikes the sensor,
    making the camera much less sensitive than it could be. The lost light
    is not just a percentage of light, but is spatially select, introducing
    additional aliasing.
    I don't know exactly what the CFA in the 10D is made of, but the 10D's
    color is excellent, and the Foveon's isn't.

    --
     
    JPS, Dec 19, 2003
  14. Iv@n

    JPS Guest

    In message <bruvqc$qd4$>,
    No; what people have said is that *you* wouldn't be fair, because:

    1) You allow the SPP to sharpen images quite a bit, but would be
    critical of people sharpening their 10D images.

    2) You have an obsession with 1:1 viewing, instead of the entire image.
    Unfortunately, monitors are still very low resolution, and you could
    not fairly compare the images from 2 cameras with different sensor
    resolutions for overall resolution unless you took a crop that was
    the same percentage of each total image, and upsampled them both to
    the same size as the screen, and stepped back about 20 feet from the
    monitor, so that individual pixels of the raster and the CRT are very
    small. With your way of looking at things, a 100MP foveon would be
    extremely blurry compared to the 3.43MP foveon.
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 19, 2003
  15. I admit that I do not know what material is used for the colour filter
    of a Bayer sensor, but I do know that there are some very good plastics
    available for optical use; I also doubt that Canon would want to risk
    lens sales by using a poor sensor.
     
    Ian Robert Walker, Dec 31, 2003
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