PShop CS colour management & Canon i965 printer

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Cudex, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. Cudex

    Cudex Guest

    While I have always got great results printing from Apple's iPhoto,
    Photoshop was usually a mess, so I finally did some tests using
    different printer profiles. [Click "Show more options" in PS Print
    dialogue, then Print space profiles under colour management tab]

    Only a couple produced acceptable results that got to close to the
    on-screen image. For skin tones most just had a dreadful magenta or
    red/orange cast.

    I'd hoped one of several listed for my printer i.e. "i965 MP1" would be
    good but they were no good either. The ones that produced good prints
    were:

    sRGB profile
    Adobe RGB (1998)
    sRGB IEC 61966-2.1

    everything else tended towards magenta.

    I'm using: Apple Mac OS X.3.9, Photoshop CS, Canon i965 driver v.2.3.5
    on Canon Photo Glossy Paper.

    What's the point of the specific Canon profiles? Didn't seem to work or
    must they be created with a calibrating tool?

    Mark
     
    Cudex, Nov 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. Cudex

    Tesco News Guest

    Hi there.

    The Canon Profiles will be Ok.

    A strong Magenta cast is the classic symptom of Double Profiling. You are
    Colour Managing in Ps and again in your Printer. You should only Colour
    Manage once to get correct Colour.

    You will need to do one or other of these 2 options.

    1. Turn off Colour Management in PS, by selecting "Printer Management" in
    Print Space.

    2. Or turn off Colour Management in your Printer Dialogues. (I don't have a
    Canon Printer, so I do not know how to do that).

    When you selected the RGB Profiles in Print Space, you were almost correct,
    and the prints were reasonable. But to be exact you should have chosen
    "Printer Management".

    The general opinion is that Ps is slightly better at CM than a Printer, but
    until you find out how to stop CM in your Canon, you will get reasonable
    results by turning off the CM in Photoshop.

    Roy G
     
    Tesco News, Nov 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. Cudex

    Cudex Guest

    Hi Roy
    Ah, thanks for the tip!
    In my printer requester under color options there's a tab "Color
    correction" with 3 choices:
    1. BJ standard <----all my prints have been with this one I guess as
    it's the default
    2. Colorsync
    3. None

    As for profiles there is a tab labelled "printer profile" tab but it is
    *only* active for 'Colorsync" and then there is no choice just
    "Recommended by Canon"

    I'll try again with color correction set to "None", assign my NEF's an
    Adobe RGB 1998 profile and set CS to the same profile for printing (with
    above canon driver set to none).

    Mark.
     
    Cudex, Nov 12, 2005
    #3
  4. Cudex

    Cudex Guest

    Well results after another 1 hr and $$ of ink printing...I found the
    most accurate is "sRGB Profile", almost indistinguishable from sRGB IEC
    6196-2.1.

    If accurate skin tones are not priority but rather "punch" then Canon's
    "i965 PR2" renders slighter lighter and brighter colours.

    Even when I set Photoshop to "printer colour management" both the
    following settings in the printer driver were dissappointing:
    1. color correction = BJ Standard
    2. color correction = colorsync (using "profile recommended by Canon"

    Despite having the printer for couple of yrs I've never made the effort
    to play with different profiles - worth it since I'm getting great
    results even with my ebay "MicroJet Imaging" cheap carts!

    Mark
     
    Cudex, Nov 12, 2005
    #4
  5. Cudex

    bmoag Guest

    Accurate inkjet color printing is not as simple or reliable as printer
    manufacturers would have you believe.
    I presume you have calibrated your monitor with an external device (not the
    Adobe gamma applet) and have a working understanding of printer;/paper
    profiles, color spaces and how Photoshop implements color management.
    Stop here if you have not or do not.
    In particular if you have not accurately calibrated/profiled your monitor
    you cannot use color management.
    Email Canon support and they will send you their methods for using color
    management with Photoshop using i9x printers.
    The procedures are quite unintuitive and you have not nearly guessed at what
    they are, based on what I see in your posting.
    The overwhelming pink tone usually means color managment has been
    implemented twice in your workflow.
    Ifyou are able to I urge you to work your way through the Canon procedures
    using whatever test image you like.
    It has been my experience that Canon has no clue about color management and
    how to tune their drivers to achieve optimal results with the canned paper
    profiles they provide with their printers.
    Either that or the profiles they provide are so inaccurate as to be useless.
    If you have the capability to generate your own custom printer/paper
    profiles, and it is not worth investing in the equipment if you are going to
    stick with the i965 printer (although you actually have a pixma printer, the
    latter mostly being rebadged i9x printers that use the same inks and
    software) I believe you will be delighted to see the improvement in print
    quality and that you can achieve some predictable relationship between what
    is on your monitor and what comes out of the printer.
    Alas, you still have a Canon 6 ink printer. It is my experience that these
    Canon printers cannot match equivalent Epson printers (presuming a color
    managed printing environment) for color and tone fidelity, particularly
    using the canned profiles provided by Canon for their printers versus the
    canned profiles provided by Epson for their printers.
     
    bmoag, Nov 12, 2005
    #5
  6. Cudex

    Cudex Guest

    Well no quite obviously - I overlooked a basic error as you note below -
    I don't intend to delve into the complexities of these 'unintuitve'
    processes...
    Nope not worth it - reasonably close is good enough, I use cheap-ass
    inks off ebay and besides according to you I shouldn't perhaps bother
    becuase...
    Thanks for the pointers, even if delivered somewhat condescendingly.

    Mark.
     
    Cudex, Nov 12, 2005
    #6
  7. Cudex

    Tesco News Guest

    Hi again.

    I have just read some more of your replies to other posters.

    If you are using 3rd party inks, then the Profiles supplied by Canon are
    totally useless. All Printer "canned" Profiles are designed to be used only
    with OEM Inks and OEM Paper.

    Quite a lot of the Independant Paper producers will supply Profiles for
    their Papers in a variety of Printers, but even they are based on using OEM
    Ink.

    To the best of my knowledge almost none of the Independant Ink makers supply
    Profiles.

    Your only real answer is to get your Monitor profiled, and have a custom
    Profile produced for your Printer/Paper/Ink combination. There will be
    people locally who could do that for you, (with a bit of luck), at a
    reasonable price.

    Roy G
     
    Tesco News, Nov 12, 2005
    #7
  8.  
    Gary Eickmeier, Nov 13, 2005
    #8
  9. Cudex

    Stacey Guest


    Get a custom profile made from some place like Catheys profiles. You've
    already wasted more ink and paper than one of these costs and the results
    will AMAZE you! I got one for my i9900 and it was the best money I've spent
    as far as dealing with color management. You won't be sorry! And yes the
    canon supplied profiles suck.
     
    Stacey, Nov 13, 2005
    #9
  10. I am just trying to get this color managed workflow going. I have run
    into what is perhaps the same problem with two different professional
    labs and three different types of printers (offset, wet photo, and
    Epson inkjet). All my test images seem printed too pink. To make the
    CS2 monitor display look like the print I had to slide the red color
    balance adjustment almost all the way to the red (right), and slide
    the blue and green a little to the left.

    I have a calibrated monitor, and use CM in PSCS2. I gave the labs TIFF
    files created in PS.

    Is it possible that the print labs default is to use CM? How do I tell
    them not to do that? Do they have dialog boxes like I do at home?

    TIA
    DuncanC
     
    Duncan Chesley, Nov 16, 2005
    #10
  11. A magenta shift is often indicative of improperly running CM twice, once in
    the app you are printing from and once in the printer driver itself. Be
    sure you have CM enabled in only one of these and disabled in the other.
     
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Nov 16, 2005
    #11
  12. Ed,

    Thanks for the response.

    To verify that I'm understanding this, I think it means that, since I
    am not printing directly from CS2, and am making TIF files to give to
    the printing labs instead, my pink tones cannot be caused by the
    double CM problem. Is this right?

    TIA
    DuncanC
     
    Duncan Chesley, Nov 17, 2005
    #12
  13. Cudex

    Ed Ruf Guest

    At least at your end I believe so, though I can't be 100% sure as I
    don't use PS. ,I can't speak to the process your printer uses. Are you
    using the proper ICC profile for whatever printer/paper combo your
    printer uses when you adjust the files in CS2 and check using soft
    proofing?
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
     
    Ed Ruf, Nov 17, 2005
    #13
  14. Ed,

    Thanks for the clarification! I'll try to get that info from the print
    labs and dive into proofing. I have a lot to learn about CS2!

    Cheers,
    DuncanC
     
    Duncan Chesley, Nov 17, 2005
    #14
  15. Cudex

    bmoag Guest

    I interpret your note to say that outside labs are giving you overly magenta
    prints of the files you send them.
    Therefore I will skip my diatribe on Canon color management or lack thereof.
    The problem is not likely in your monitor, unless it is wildly out of
    kilter, but in the way you have color management settings applied in
    Photoshop.
    Make sure that your color management settings are set to sRGB or AdobeRGB
    and do not involve any printer specific information.
    If you send your file out with any printer specific information embedded in
    it then that is a first layer of color management and the lab is adding its
    own. The lab has to have some sort of color management so that what its
    technician sees on the monitor will hopefully show up in the print.
    Have you tried sending a jpeg made in the camera straight to the lab and
    seeing how the colors turn out?
     
    bmoag, Nov 18, 2005
    #15
  16. Calibrated with a low-end Colorvision sensor.
    I'll check again. In CS2 NEF processing I use AdobeRGB. In CS2 Color
    Settings AdobeRGB is the working space and all the Preserve Profiles
    are selected.

    Ed suggested in another post to look at the proofing function, and I
    could see that there I could turn on CMYK, but I have not done that
    with anything sent to the printer.
    No. Interesting idea. I'll give that a shot.

    Thank you, bmoag.

    Cheers,
    DuncanC
     
    Duncan Chesley, Nov 18, 2005
    #16
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