Prosumer vs. DLSR thoughts

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Mike

    dj_nme Guest

    Matt Ion wrote:
    You realy like stretching out a point don't you?
    If you use a 135 lens on anything other than a full-frame DSLR you are
    not using the focal length/angle of view (on the frame/sensor) it was
    originaly designed as.
    A great chunk of the image circle that _would_ have appeared in-shot
    with 135 is lost off the edge of the sensor with most DSLR cameras
    That's what crop-factor is.
    It is fair enough to call this "wasted light", because it sure as hell
    does _not_ appear in the captured image.

    Most digicams with an integral zoom lens have the lens designed for the
    sensor/frame size and don't have all that extra glass, like using a lens
    from a 135 camera on a DSLR with an APS sized (or smaller) sensor.
    dj_nme, Nov 14, 2004
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  2. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <[email protected]>,
    I never claimed they did. Read what *I* wrote, not what some illiterate
    implied that I said, in his response. I really don't know what it is
    with people on usenet; no matter how clearly you state yourself and take
    care to qualify things, people read something completely different than
    what you wrote. It is really annoying wasting time clearing these
    things up.
    .... in its current state, but I am sure that the optical viewfinder will
    someday give way to superior electronic ones. I don't think you need
    more than about a megapixel to have as much resolution as the matte
    screens in the SLRs. You really can't see anywhere near as much detail
    in them as you can from a print; they are quite low-res for all intents
    and purposes; just a bit better than current EVFs.
    JPS, Nov 14, 2004
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  3. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message
    I would think that you would have to eliminate the lens in the
    viewfinder completely, as they tend to be of poor quality, knowing that
    the brain will make a decent image out of it. The brain takes
    rasterized distortion quite literally, though.
    JPS, Nov 14, 2004
  4. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <[email protected]>,
    It's an estimation, based on what I can see in a 2MP print.
    2MP was generous, I thought. That's 50% the resolution of an 8MP
    The Sony F707 updates extremely fast when the shutter speed is set high.
    JPS, Nov 14, 2004
  5. Here's a good way to test. Look at a resolution test chart in the
    viewfinders of both an EVF camera and a dSLR and see how much better the
    dSLR is. If I remember correctly the EVF/LCD screens are on the order of 0.5
    MP, but I that's inflated by a factor of 3 (i.e. they're counting each red,
    green, and blue pixels).

    (Bart's spokes test pattern is _great_ for this, but I don't have the link
    to it at hand.)

    The 300D is _way better_ than the Sony F707, and I far prefer the F707 to
    the Minolta and Panasonic EVFs.

    Anyway, the 2MP estimate sounds quite good to me; maybe 1MP would be OK to
    compete with the 300D (assuming 1 pixel = RGB). But they need brighter

    Current reality is
    that EVFs and LCDs in consumer cameras are nowhere near the 300D, and the
    300D's nowhere near the 1Ds (I handled a 1Ds in a store yesterday when
    picking up the 10-22. It's heavy. (The 1Ds, not the 10-22. The 10-22 is
    feather weight, and focuses incredibly close.))

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Nov 14, 2004
  6. Larry wrote:
    On the FZ20 it works like this - switch the camera to manual focus.
    Optionally, you can flick the switch to allow the auto-focus to preset the
    manual focus, but that isn't required. Rotate the manual focus ring. The
    centre of the finder automatically shows the enlarged image, until the
    focus ring stops moving for a couple of seconds. The user has to do
    nothing to take advantage of the feature - and that's nice. Oh, and you
    can disable it if you really want, although I can't think why you would
    want to.

    Good luck with your landscapes.

    David J Taylor, Nov 14, 2004
  7. MarkH wrote:
    Yes, a nice setup, but it would be much too heavy and bulky for me!

    David J Taylor, Nov 14, 2004
  8. YAG-ART wrote:
    I think if you had the chance to use a camera with a swivel LCD finder you
    would appreciate the benefits it has.

    David J Taylor, Nov 14, 2004
  9. Mike

    MarkH Guest

    Do you mean the Canon A95 or if you decided to carry all the kit at once?

    Maybe you could consider building your upper body strength a little?
    Honestly I have seen rather lightly built people handling the 1D camera
    with L lenses at motorsports events without too much trouble.
    MarkH, Nov 14, 2004
  10. Mike

    Larry Guest

    As far as I can tell from reading what you posted it is
    exactly the same with the Sony.

    Switch to "Manual Focus" and use the ring.

    On the F 717 its the same ring you zoom with (meaning if
    you are in "manual" you must zoom with the "zoom buttons")
    This is why I have avoided it up 'till now. Many years with
    film cameras has made me dislike ZOOM BUTTONS... They
    belong on toy cam-corders.

    (My Fuji S7000 works exactly like the 717)

    On the F 828 the focus ring is the second ring on the lens,
    and the zoom ring stays the same (much better feature) So I
    decided to USE IT!

    What I was doing was focusing on some stuff in the "middle
    distance" trying to get the depth of field just right with
    arpeture settings and then focusing. It seems to be the
    BEST way to do this with these cameras is in "manual
    focus" mode. Focussing on the middle distance with the
    "half press" and then re-composing and shooting was NOT
    working for me at 20 degrees F in a 25 knot wind. The cold
    was making my hand numb and the shutter button kept "going
    off" while I was re-composing.

    Please excuse any typos, as Im working at the lower end of
    my "Arthritis threshold" its only 50 deg f in this room
    (fuel conservation raises its ugly head).
    Larry, Nov 14, 2004
  11. MarkH wrote:
    There is something wrong if a hobby interest in photography requires
    body-building! How can you justify the cost of both the DSLR and the
    requisite body-building course?

    David J Taylor, Nov 14, 2004
  12. Larry wrote:
    Yes, the lack of both zoom and focus rings is one of the most annoying
    drawbacks of the majority of P&S cameras. Thanks for confirming how the
    focus-assist works on those cameras. You are lucky with the Sony F828 to
    have two rings, although I would now want image stabilisation in any
    future camera I buy.

    I've not needed to get such a defined depth-of-field as you were
    attempting - just checking the shots after taking to know whether the
    background was sufficiently out of focus or ensuring a wide aperture to
    start with. I have tried to test my cameras in a gloved hand environment
    to accomodate such weather conditions as you describe!

    Sorry to hear of the Arthritis.

    David J Taylor, Nov 14, 2004
  13. Mike

    W L Leven Guest


    I own a Nikon 8400 and two Nikon 4500's all are very fine cameras and I
    get great 8 x 10's with all.

    The main reason I have not purchased a DSLR is the display. I find the
    display so much easier to use for nature and close ups.

    Yes it uses more battery but I would like the option of that feature

    W L Leven, Nov 14, 2004
  14. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <4Szld.217549$%[email protected]>,
    More range, but it leans towards the narrower. I didn't say that
    prosumers have a "wider range" of DOF. I said that they *more* DOF, a
    completely different thing. Prosumers typically have maximum apertures
    of 2.0 to 2.8 with focal lengths in the range of 5 to 50mm.
    Shut it off, as you can on most, if not all, *prosumers*, which is what
    we were discussing; not low end P&S cameras, and I'm sure many of them
    allow you to disable sound as well.
    Theorize all you want, but I can hand-hold my Sony F707 up to two stops
    longer than my 10D or 20D.
    JPS, Nov 14, 2004
  15. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    I was thinking more along the lines of 100% pixel-viewing.
    Probably. That is a big gap.
    JPS, Nov 14, 2004
  16. Mike

    Big Bill Guest

    I believe the half-press system is pretty ubiquitous on digital
    Certainly, the user can bypass the half-press mode and go straight to
    the full-press to shoot, but the half-press is far from unique to the
    K-M cameras.

    Bill Funk
    Change "g" to "a"
    Big Bill, Nov 14, 2004
  17. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <cn5usa$ujq$>,
    A little USM makes the 20D look much more detailed.

    The sharpening is obviously greater in the 8080.
    I have a 20D and it picks up a lot of detail, even at ISO 3200. It
    looks more like you're seeing through translucent noise, compared to the
    10D or especially the F707 at ISO 400.
    JPS, Nov 14, 2004
  18. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    I had a Canon GL2 dv camera with a swivel LCD.
    YAG-ART, Nov 14, 2004
  19. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    Why would you need a course? Just do it at home
    YAG-ART, Nov 14, 2004
  20. Mike

    Skip M Guest

    That's what angle finders are actually meant for.
    Skip M, Nov 14, 2004
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