Prosumer vs. DLSR thoughts

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Mike

    usenet Guest

    Nope. The price you pay for the higher quality, higher fill-ratio DSLR
    sensors is that they can't be read continuously the way digicam sensors
    can be.
     
    usenet, Nov 13, 2004
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  2. YAG-ART wrote:
    []
    I would just love to see (a picture of) someone using that over their
    head! A photo made in heaven!

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 13, 2004
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  3. Mike

    Larry Guest

    There is really no reason for the manufacturer to put a
    "preview" mode into a DSLR. They have spent BILLIONS on
    "R&D" to build some really good "Top Of The Line" point and
    shoot cameras, for the people that need (or want) that kind
    of camera.

    The money they have spent, and will spend on"R&D" for DSLR
    cameras doesn't need to be funneled into putting P&S
    features into a line of cameras that AREN'T P&S.

    Some things are complicated and some things are simple. I
    think the reason for NOT adding P&S features to DSLR
    cameras is simple. They dont perseive a large market for
    it. Yes there is A market, but not a LARGE market.

    For the same reason you cant find a Hearse with 4 wheel
    drive (though Im sure such a beast exsists) you cant find a
    DSLR with a live preview on the LCD.
     
    Larry, Nov 13, 2004
  4. Larry wrote:
    []
    It's an often quoted reason for people not moving to DLSR - and with the
    profits to be made on DSLR you would think that the manufacturers would
    want to maximise their sales... Once you have appreciated the benefit of
    a swivel LCD finder it's hard to give it up.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 13, 2004
  5. No need to loose anything, make an LCD that works from the viewfinder
    image - a camera within a camera if you like.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 13, 2004
  6. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Let people decide with their wallets...

    But I'd bet that as soon a manufacturer starts offering this feature on
    their DSLRs ("press button for live preview") all other manufacturers
    will quickly follow suit. And we'll also see swiveling LCDs on DSLRs.

    Later, when the resolution of these LCDs has substantially grown, to a
    level where you can actually determine if the image is focused or not,
    the entire DSLR design might change with the prism/pentamirror simply
    disappearing.
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 13, 2004
  7. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Please explain why.
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 13, 2004
  8. Mike

    Larry Guest

    It is an often "quoted" reason, but I just dont think the
    REAL market is there.

    I dont have a DSLR myself YET, I'm dithering around trying
    to decide EXACTLY what I want.

    Every Digital camera I own is a "top of the line P&S"
    camera of one style or other.

    I think I have used an lcd to frame maybe 3 photos out of
    more than 8,000 shots.
     
    Larry, Nov 13, 2004
  9. Mike

    dj_nme Guest

    Perhaps it would be do-able to have a small video camera that attaches
    to the eyepiece and cabled to a LCD screen on an arm attached to the
    camera, hand-held or on a belt-pack of some sort.
    I realy don't know if that would make it possible to manualy focus or if
    AF would be the only way.
    It would give you the flexibility hold it above a crowd or at waist
    level and still know what the camera is pointing at.

    "spy" cams and small LCD screens can be found on eBay or online quite
    cheaply.
     
    dj_nme, Nov 13, 2004
  10. Mike

    Larry Guest

    Thats when it will be a viable feature.. When the lcd has
    resolving power good enough to focud with, and I dont see
    that in the near future.
     
    Larry, Nov 13, 2004
  11. Mike

    Larry Guest

    The WHY is simple..

    The sensor for most DSLRs is designed to function primarily
    ONE mode, The "sit there in the dark and wait for a
    picture" mode.

    The critters just arent designed to put out a steady stream
    of "video-like" images for a preview. Swithcing back and
    forth between modes (if the sensor is capable of the mode
    at all) would slow down the response time of a DSLR,
    thereby removing the advantage of being a DSLR in the first
    place.
     
    Larry, Nov 13, 2004
  12. He either got a lemon or he doesn't know how to sharpen/postprocess.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page25.asp

    There's no question that the 20D resolves more detail than the D70, as you
    can see from the above page. The 70D uses an inadequate low-pass filter
    (allows occasional Moire) for sharper looking images out of the camera. (The
    D100 has the least inadequate low-pass filter of the 6MP cameras, but Nikon
    got all sorts of grief for "soft" images from the D100, so they went
    overboard the other direction in the D70.)

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Nov 13, 2004
  13. Larry wrote:
    []
    I have no intention of having to drag round one or more bodies and lenses,
    flashguns, tripods etc. etc. Been there, done that, it's not for me, so
    no DSLRs either. Of course, perhaps for the photos you want a DSLR is
    essential - only you can make that judgement.

    Since I've had an EVF I do make a lot less use of the LCD, but not as
    little as you! Yesterday, for instance, low light level, exposures around
    1/8 .. 1/4s. Too long for hand-held. Solution, brace the camera on a
    seat arm, frame in the LCD. The day before, taking a photo inside a
    restaurant. Simply put the camera on a table and frame with the LCD. You
    could not physically get your eye near the finder. Earlier this year,
    taking pictures of speakers at a conference, not wishing to be obtrusive,
    camera place on the table, propped up to the appropriate angle, framing
    with the LCD.

    So I find the swivel LCD (and the swivel body of the Nikon Coolpix 990)
    very handy. Today's DSLRs would really cramp my style on such occasions.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 13, 2004
  14. Mike

    Charlie Self Guest

    But most likely you'd still end up with a better photo than you'd get with the
    prosumer camera, IME.

    Charlie Self
    "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of
    common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever
    ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken
     
    Charlie Self, Nov 13, 2004
  15. Larry wrote:
    []
    Just for your information, the Panasonic FZ20 has by far the best
    focussing that I've seen - in manual focus mode the centre of the
    viewfinder is substantially magnified, the correct focus point is
    absolutely obvious as you twist the focus ring. At least as easy as the
    split-image or micro-prism schemes I've used in the past.

    Why more manufacturers don't copy this I don't know.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 13, 2004
  16. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    That's a matter of interpretation. I don't think someone is a dork when
    they do that. I think they are ignorant when they stand back so far
    from their subject with a wide angle lens that it comprises about 12
    pixels, or when they shoot a group of friends in the shade with a sunlit
    backdrop. Composing *can* be easier holding the LCD at arm's length.
    It's easier to see when the frame is level, and it is also a more
    accurate view of the digital frame.
    --
     
    JPS, Nov 13, 2004
  17. Mike

    Charlie Self Guest

    YAG-ART responds:
    I'm hoping that before I leave the planet, someone will come up with a DSLR
    that offers the same kind of prism my old Canon F1 mechanical had: it slid off,
    the ground glass was in view, the image was reversed (of course) and you could
    use it low level--I got some great ground level shots at motorcycle races--and
    you could hold it overhead.

    Charlie Self
    "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of
    common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever
    ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken
     
    Charlie Self, Nov 13, 2004
  18. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <[email protected]>,
    It's called chimping because there are a lot of insecure old farts who
    have to elevate themselves by laughing at others, even when what they
    are doing makes sense in context.

    I'm not against laughing at folly, but make sure it really is folly, and
    that you are not just displaying your own ignorance by laughing.
    --
     
    JPS, Nov 13, 2004
  19. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    It is much easier to see if the camera is level when holding it away
    from the face. You can see the edges of the frame more clearly, in a
    better part of your vision. In the viewfinder, the edges are almost in
    the periphery.

    In any event, most people seen seen so-called "chimping" have cameras
    with less-than-perfect optical viewfinders.
    --
     
    JPS, Nov 13, 2004
  20. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    .... an optional replacement dome for the camera.

    I think that if the EVFs improve enough, though, there may be no reason
    to use optical. Anyone who thinks that they're seeing 8.2MP in the
    viewfinder of an 8MP DSLR, or an "infinite analog image" is fooling
    themselves. You're probably seeing less than 2MP worth of data, so all
    you really need is a 2MP EVF/LCD to see as much as you're seeing
    optically, for all intents and purposes. Maybe even 1.3MP. I have some
    ideas as to how to optimize focusing when viewing at a lower pixel
    resolution than the camera's native resolution, overcoming the issue
    that extreme subsampling attenuates the difference in contrast between
    in-focus and out-of-focus.
    --
     
    JPS, Nov 13, 2004
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