Prosumer vs. DLSR thoughts

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Mike

    Harvey Guest

    Yes it does - both the Minolta A1 and A2 have a manual zoom. Not as nice as
    a DSLR as its feels tacky and its a bit small for fast use, but its a step
    in the right direction from zoom buttons.
    And the same argument hold for manual vs. auto focus, and even manual exposure. If you know your camera inside out you can set an all
    manual camera up for somewhere near the correct exposure, zoom and focus
    before you even look through the viewfinder. But technology has taken over
    and given us not only auto exposure and auto focus, but now 'features' like
    zoom-by-wire, focus-by-wire, 3D auto-predictive focus, tracking
    focus.....etc. etc.etc.. - even if we want them or not.
    Harvey, Nov 12, 2004
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  2. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Not true. There are lots of cameras with a very usable LCD in bright
    Alfred Molon, Nov 12, 2004
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  3. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Yep, if there was a clean ISO 3200 I would probably use it.

    But then the problem is that the dynamic range at such a pushed ISO is
    very, very small, which means that you can only shoot scenes with not
    too much brightness variation.
    Alfred Molon, Nov 12, 2004
  4. Mike

    Alan Meyer Guest


    For my purposes, I prefer a P&S camera to a dSLR because of
    1) cost 2) size and 3) ease of use (especially for my wife.) For what
    I do the quality of a good P&S is perfectly acceptable and the
    extra quality available in a dSLR isn't important to me.

    However, if I were a professional photographer, I'd want the
    highest quality I could afford. If someone were paying me money
    to shoot a wedding, or cover a news event, or produce a magazine
    spread, or prepare an advertisement, it would be pretty unprofessional
    of me to give them anything other than the results they paid for.

    How would I explain that the clothes on the model aren't as sharp
    as they could be, or the DOF not as good because the lens on
    my camera isn't the best? How would I explain that I missed the
    news event because the sensitivity of my CCD only went to ISO 400?
    How would I explain that the bride's gown is a bit off color, or the
    edges of the image are unsharp, or there is light falloff in the corners
    or anything else that could have been okay but for the fact that I
    used a cheaper camera?

    So I think the higher priced, perfectionist oriented systems are
    well worth the money to people who need them, and there are
    people who need them.

    But I don't happen to be one of them. I'm not a professional
    photographer. Amateur equipment suits me very well.

    Alan Meyer, Nov 12, 2004
  5. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <4pald.1328$>,
    No, but I took Philosophy 101.
    How's that? My response was a technical one, albeit anthropomorphic in
    That sounds about right. That's pretty much what I had in mind when I
    wrote "as the camera sees it".

    Your response is puzzling, and I do believe you did not understand the
    previous conversation. YAG-ART implied that the viewfinder *is* the
    same thing as a preview. Now read my reply in that context.

    Top-posting doesn't help threads become any more intelligible.
    JPS, Nov 12, 2004
  6. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    Then buy an angled viewfinder attachment
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  7. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    I tought I was
    Well then your not thinking. You dont have to look though the
    viewfinder to take a photo.

    Because there aren't any, unless you count draining down the battery
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  8. If you don't like DSLR's get a ZLR.. The *only* difference between
    them is that the SLR has interchangeable lenses and the ZLR has a fixed
    zoom lens.

    If you want a huge range of focal lengths.. (ie 10mm to 1200mm), then
    get an SLR.. Since SLR means you can swap lenses.. You can plug in many
    lenses with a huge focal range.

    If you just want an SLR camera with less than 10X zoom and have no need to
    swap special lenses, then get a zoom lens reflex (ZLR), like the Canon G6
    or the Nikon Coolpix 8400

    The Zoom lens reflex camera isn't bothered by a mirror and you get a
    live display on the LCD screen.

    I don't see your problem at all.
    Until they start making all SLRs without mirrors, this will be a problem.
    At present only the zoom lens reflex (ZLR) cameras don't have the limitation
    of the mirror. I suspect we'll see SLR's without mirrors in the not too
    distant future.
    Keith Weinstein, Nov 12, 2004
  9. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    Not true
    Also not ture, all you need is the correct attachment
    By the time the sound is made, the image has also been made.
    Not true, most DSLR's have MLU and self timers, plus larger apature
    lenses. I have handheld a DSLR camera to 1/15th of a second with no
    Optics on prosumer cameras are generaly much worse than even the
    cheapest SLR cameras
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  10. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    Or your someplace where they dont let you use flash
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  11. I'm amazed this thread went as far as it did without noise/effective ISO
    being brought up. One of the first things you have to get used to with a
    DSLR is that it's OK to use higher ISO speeds (particularly with cameras
    like the D20). On a Prosumer unit, you're doing a constant battle trying to
    keep the ISO as low as possible without having such a slow shutter speed
    that things get fuzzy. And even then you're still not happy when you blow
    something up and notice that sure, you've got 8 megapixels, but sometimes
    the biggest feature of all those pixels is clearly-defined noise.

    But then you take a look at some of the ISO 400 shots with a DSLR, and your
    first thought is that somebody mixed things up, that must be 100. And then
    you see an "800" shot, and it's still very noise free and with excellent
    dynamic range (no blown highlights, as you typically start experiencing at
    200 with a prosumer or high-end P&S). But wait, there's more. Somebody shows
    you an incredible indoor shot from a basketball game, and you notice it's
    shot at 1600.

    The differences are not subtle.

    There are things I'd miss (going to a DSLR) though. As mentioned, the
    ability to use my Olympus 5050 at odd angles, and its smaller size & lighter
    weight (I'm often carrying it on bicycle rides). But, I have come up against
    its limitations (both in lens length, at 35-100mm equivalent, and slow
    useful ISO speeds) often enough to really appreciate the possibilities of a
    good DSLR.

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member
    Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles, Nov 12, 2004
  12. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    So how does that differ from what you see looking at an LCD?
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  13. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    As far as I know there is no law that says you cant own both.
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  14. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    I didn't even know that I had a "not thinking". What about it?
    Of course not, but if you want to be sure it is level and pointing in
    the right direction, it is very helpful to see the camera's perspective.
    You're obviously a narrow-minded bigot who is not interested in the
    truth, but only in playing the role of the person who is always correct,
    and elevates himself by painting other people as idiots.
    JPS, Nov 12, 2004
  15. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    That only addresses a fraction of the range of perspectives possible
    with an LCD; especially a swivel LCD.
    JPS, Nov 12, 2004
  16. Mike

    Jim Townsend Guest

    I owned a Canon Pro90IS prior to buying a Canon 10D..

    I took several shots with the Pro90 that I could never have
    done with my 10D

    I recall one occasion where I swiveled the LCD down so I could
    look at it and compose a shot as I held the camera at a full
    arms length above my head.. I was shooting over a crowd......
    It worked very well.

    Another thing the Pro90 would do with it's swiveling LCD was
    let you compose shots while standing in front of the camera.
    You could position yourself just right, then trip the camera
    with the infrared remote control.

    Composing without the constraints of an optical viewfinder
    is a real plus....
    Jim Townsend, Nov 12, 2004
  17. Mike

    dj_nme Guest

    Not entirely true.
    Most of the DSLR line-up available today can use other (older, mostly
    MF) lenses with a mechanical adapter and manual focus and apeture.
    I think the OP mean that the image circle is (light) wasted on most
    DSLRs, because of the crop-factor.
    It does seem a pity, but without a 0.75x zoom adapter (which doesn't
    seem to exist) mounted between the lens and body, it just isn't possible
    to use the same image (no crop) area on the current APS sized sensors in
    use today.
    Except (of course), if you wish to spend mega-dollars on a full-frame DSLR.
    This is the one feature of the Dimage 5 7 & A series cameras, a
    mechanical zoom ring on the 28-200mm (135 equiv) lens that I find the best.
    My camera is a Dimage 7i and the zoom ring is quite positive in feel and
    only a quarter turn from wide to tele.
    The only quibble I have with it is the "focus by wire" ring at the base
    of the lens feels very loose (turns too freely), and focusing using the
    EVF isn't practical for most shots (but is OK if there is enough time to
    use the 4x e-mag on the EVF to manualy focus).
    The AF seems to be fairly quick, which offsets the lack of practical
    "action" focusing ability with the EVF.
    dj_nme, Nov 12, 2004
  18. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    JPS, Nov 12, 2004
  19. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    No, I know what the truth is, its people like you that aren't
    interested in knowing the truth and are only interested in pushing
    thier point of view that P&S cameras are better than DSLR's
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
  20. Mike

    YAG-ART Guest

    You just need more lessons on composition, then you'll find out you
    dont need to see though the viewfinder to get a great shot. Quite a
    few of the images you see in Newsweek etc are taken with remote
    cameras unsing a radio signal to trigger it. Its all about knowladge
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
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