Prosumer vs. DLSR thoughts

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mike, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    No, but I get almost the same long shutter speeds with that two-stop
    benefit.
    --
     
    JPS, Nov 18, 2004
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  2. Mike

    Skip M Guest

    I'm not sure what your point is here. The D60 is a couple of generations
    old, one of the major improvements of the 10D over that camera is lower
    noise, and low light metering was another. The current 20D is even better
    on both counts.
    Not sure what lens is being used, major lens flare throughout the image.
     
    Skip M, Nov 18, 2004
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  3. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    No special point. I was browsing through photos of Guilin on pbase
    today, because I'll visit the place in December and I ran into these
    images, taken with a D60. The point could be that the image quality of
    DSLRs isn't always superior to prosumer cameras. You can't for instance
    just use any lens and still expect great results.
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 18, 2004
  4. You'd need a whole different type of sensor. Which would cost quality
    -- chip area now used for the actual sensor would be given up to the
    circuitry to provide live preview. I imagine eventually sensors will
    get good enough that this is an acceptable sacrifice, but that day is
    not today.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Nov 19, 2004
  5. Mike

    Skip M Guest

    No, but the D60 beat the pants off of just about any P&S or ZLR of its
    contemporary generation. It's still better than 90% of them, except if you
    use a bottom feeder lens.
     
    Skip M, Nov 19, 2004
  6. Mike

    Tom Monego Guest

    This is a really tough image to pull off well, bright lights and a subtly in
    the sky, it is a good travel shot by a kid, probably done on auto. You can
    induce noise on a D60 by trying to bring out shadows. His histogram probably
    looks like garbage, This is on Pbase btw not National Geographic.
    This is a shot of his friend, yeah you could have done 2 exposures 1 for the
    friend one for the lights, but he didn't again a personnal travel pic, no
    sensor could have pulled it off, for that matter neither could any film. Hey
    let's not rush to judgement on shapshots even if they are done on a decent
    camera.
     
    Tom Monego, Nov 19, 2004
  7. Mike

    usenet Guest

    Sure, but it'd be a pretty kludgy solution. OTOH, I've actually
    considered converting a webcam to clip onto the eyepiece of my 10D, so I
    can use it like one of those digicams with the swivelling LCD
    viewfinders. It'd be great for shooting live bands from within the
    audience. ;)
     
    usenet, Nov 23, 2004
  8. Mike

    usenet Guest

    No, he's not.
    The limitation is one that's inherent to the layout of the suface of the
    image sensor. In summary, it involves a compromise; you can include
    continuous line transfer circuitry next to each photosite to provide a
    continuously updated image (such as in digicam & video cameras), or you
    can use that surface area for larger photosites, which gives you a
    cleaner, brighter image, as is done in DSLRs. The current state of the
    art in silicon image sensors is such that you can't do both on the same
    sensor.
    Really? - How, exactly?
     
    usenet, Nov 23, 2004
  9. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Obviously if a tiny CCD can have live preview, also a large one can.
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 24, 2004
  10. Mike

    Owamanga Guest

    Hmmm.. Someone is missing the point. The live preview circuitry needs
    space that we'd rather use for larger CCD pixel elements that can
    capture more light. So it's a trade off - large % coverage for light
    gathering vs % wasted for transmission electronics needed to do live
    preview.

    This really has nothing to do with the overall size of the CCD array.
     
    Owamanga, Nov 24, 2004
  11. Yes, but DSLR sensors are not designed that way, so that the "picture
    only" performance can be improved. Thus they could have preview, but they
    don't.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Nov 24, 2004
  12. Mike

    Phil Wheeler Guest

    And you are fronting the development costs, Alfred?

    Phil
     
    Phil Wheeler, Nov 25, 2004
  13. Mike

    usenet Guest

    <rolls eyes>
    Which part of "Redesigning a DSLR sensor to act like a digicam sensor
    would give it the *image quality* of a digicam sensor" is it that you're
    having trouble understanding?
     
    usenet, Nov 25, 2004
  14. Mike

    Sabineellen Guest

    Someone recently said in some thread that the Fujifilm s3 pro will have a live
    preview feature/function.
     
    Sabineellen, Nov 25, 2004
  15. Mike

    Skip M Guest

    And you want to pay for that? 'Cause I don't...
     
    Skip M, Nov 25, 2004
  16. Mike

    Skip M Guest

    My thoughts, exactly...
     
    Skip M, Nov 25, 2004
  17. Mike

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    Not if it were APS-sized. It would be somewhere between tiny-sized and
    DSLR quality; usable in well-lit situations without much noise.
    --
     
    JPS, Nov 25, 2004
  18. There is indeed a black and white preview mode. It will run for 30 seconds
    max, and you can't shoot from that mode - you have to relect a shooting
    mode.

    HMc
     
    Howard McCollister, Nov 25, 2004
  19. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Obviously the space needed would be minimal, since they manage to put
    that circuitry into tiny 2.8 micrometer pixels. The fraction of space
    used in a 8 micrometer pixel would be negligible.
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 25, 2004
  20. Mike

    Alfred Molon Guest

    No problem. Just change the design.
     
    Alfred Molon, Nov 25, 2004
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