Private Address Spaces

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Andrew, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <Agrwb.2791$>
    What I am stating is.
    If you are stating that my privacy is my problem.
    The I will state that your safety is your problem.
    Buy your self a mine detector, before you venture outside your home.
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #41
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  2. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <>
    They rent the block.
    You know precisely what I mean.
    Perhaps.. I cited the worst case senario. (I'm a novice at mind bending.)
    I also communicate annonymously with people I can't trust.
    I thought that was what I was doing in Newsgroups, till I learned the TRUTH.
    I used yahoo.com, NOW I know the TRUTH.
    It's only "effectively" public. It doesn't have to be.
    It's really private, between me and my ISP.
    It may or may not work..
    It costs me. I have to learn the pit falls.
    My OS may have "problems".
    I may have to dis-able it to do "some" things.
    I say, my first line of defese is my ISP.
    I paid them to provide access to the www, their servers, and
    everything else.. And they are a monopoly to boot.
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #42
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  3. Andrew

    Bob Eager Guest

    Then move. And get treatment for your paranoia....
     
    Bob Eager, Nov 24, 2003
    #43
  4. Andrew

    nicklebon Guest

    BINGO you pay them for a connection to the internet. EVERY
    firewall and defense technique has pitfalls. If the the ISP provides
    defense somethings will fail on the customer end. That is why
    it is YOUR responsiblity to provide the protection YOU need for
    YOUR applications to work and no one elses.

    BTW you have contradicted yourself. you said earlier in this
    thread that your ISP used privated ipaddresses now you the
    ISP is in fact leasing a public block.

    You sir are a troll and as such are no longer worth my time.

    Good day
     
    nicklebon, Nov 24, 2003
    #44
  5. Andrew

    Anonymous Guest

    No, your IP address is NOT just private between you and your ISP, and
    you're devolving further and further into complete gibberish.

    And if you don't like your ISP being a geographic monopoly, move. or
    open your own.

    Mike-

    P.S. If you don't like the security holes in windows, don't use it.

    Idiot.

    Mornings: Evolution in action. Only the grumpy will survive.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    Please note - Due to the intense volume of spam, we have
    installed site-wide spam filters at catherders.com. If
    email from you bounces, try non-HTML, non-encoded,
    non-attachments.
     
    Anonymous, Nov 24, 2003
    #45
  6. Andrew

    Jim Fischer Guest

    PMFJI...

    A NIC's data link address (a.k.a., MAC address, data link identifier) is
    not necessarily unique among all NICs. A company that manufactuers
    millions of NICs - e.g., 3Com, Intel, Netgear, etc. - will eventually
    produce multiple NICs with the same MAC address. This is generally not a
    problem, however, because it is statistically unlikely that two NICs
    with the same MAC address will ever be attached to a particular LAN at
    the same time. The general idea here is that a NIC's MAC address must be
    unique only on the LAN that the NIC is currently communicating on.
     
    Jim Fischer, Nov 24, 2003
    #46
  7. Andrew

    James Knott Guest

    Is your street address private between you and the post office?

    --

    Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

    To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
    james.knott.
     
    James Knott, Nov 24, 2003
    #47
  8. No, they won't. They get a second (or third, or ...) manufacturer id.

    Craig
     
    Craig A. Finseth, Nov 24, 2003
    #48
  9. ?

    Did you, perchance, pass your posting through

    http://www.tashian.com/multibabel/

    and is an English translation available?

    Oh, and I see that you snipped all relevant points - misunderstanding, or a
    pure troll..?

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Nov 24, 2003
    #49
  10. Sir:
    NO!!! Your IP is public and tied to you the second you use it. Attempt
    to disguise it and you'll be liable to legal action in the US, when the
    new SPAM law passes this week, not to mention that you'll be in breach
    of your service agreement. Read it.
    Who said anything about moving or changing ISPs? Not I. That was
    someone else. If you have a bitch with them, place your comments after
    their quote and tag it to their post.
     
    William L. Hartzell, Nov 25, 2003
    #50
  11. Andrew

    Bob Eager Guest

    However, many NICs can be told by software to use a different MAC
    address ....one networking protocol relies (or did) on that...!
     
    Bob Eager, Nov 25, 2003
    #51
  12. Program ended abnormally on 24/11/2003 10:39, Due to a catastrophic
    mchiper error:
    No.

    What is commonly referred to as "private address space" has nothing to do with
    pirvacy. It is simply three ranges of IP addresses (10.x.x.x,
    172.16.x.x-172.31.x.x and 192.168.x.x) that companies are recommended to use for
    their internal lans to limit the wasteful usage of ip addresses. Those IP
    address ranges are not routable on the internet, so if you were to use one of
    them, you would not be able to contact any web site, e-mails erver, etc...
    The ip address that you get when you connect to your ISP is indeed used so that
    you may connect to other sites. Your ISP might use private addresses, but most
    don't.
    If your ISP used private addresses, unless they used some sort of translation
    mechanism (called NAT) at their border, the other end would not know where to
    send packets back to you. The great majority of ISPs do not use NAT because it
    can cause all kinds of problems with some applications that need to allow the
    other end to initiate the connection (instant messengers, file-sharing
    softwares, etc...) or applications that simply do not work with NAT (vpn
    tunnels, etc...)
    Yes. As others have pointed out, you should lock your doors at night, and don't
    leave your car's windows open in the shopping center's parking lot.
    That is a bad analogy. You send an order to a company for a parcel. You need
    to tell that company where you live, so that they can send the parcel back to
    you. The postman needs to be able to find your house to deliver the parcel to
    you. You should also put a return address on regular mail you put in your
    mailbox so that in you did not put enough stamps on it, or your intended
    recipient moved, the postman can return it to you.

    It is the same for Internet traffic.
     
    Francois Labreque, Nov 25, 2003
    #52
  13. Andrew

    Don Kelloway Guest

    <xPosting removed to save others from the pain...>

    No. The IP address assigned to via your ISP is not a 'PRIVATE ADDRESS
    SPACE'. At least not unless it's within one of the following ranges:

    10.0.0.0 through 10.255.255.255
    172.16.0.0 through 172.31.255.255
    192.168.0.0 through 192.168.255.255

    If it is (a rarity unless you're acquiring access through some "Mom &
    Pop" operation) then your ISP is performing Network Address Translation
    (NAT) and you have nothing further to be concerned with in regards to
    the original intent of this thread which was to discuss 'pirated' IP
    addresses.

    If it isn't then your ISP has allocated an IP address via DHCP or static
    for your use to connect to the Internet and you still have nothing
    further to be concerned with in regards to the original intent of this
    thread.

    --
    Best regards,
    Don Kelloway
    Commodon Communications

    Visit http://www.commodon.com to learn about the "Threats to Your
    Security on the Internet".
     
    Don Kelloway, Nov 25, 2003
    #53
  14. Andrew

    Don Kelloway Guest

    If you are stating that someone, possibly your ISP is opening the DOS
    Prompt (Command Window) on your PC, then you have some serious security
    issues. No one, including your ISP should be able to accomplish this
    task with or without your permission.


    --
    Best regards,
    Don Kelloway
    Commodon Communications

    Visit http://www.commodon.com to learn about the "Threats to Your
    Security on the Internet".
     
    Don Kelloway, Nov 25, 2003
    #54
  15. Andrew

    Don Kelloway Guest

    FWIW It was about four years I had two 3COM 3c509 NICs each with the
    same physical address.


    --
    Best regards,
    Don Kelloway
    Commodon Communications

    Visit http://www.commodon.com to learn about the "Threats to Your
    Security on the Internet".
     
    Don Kelloway, Nov 27, 2003
    #55
  16. Andrew

    CCIE8122 Guest

    Or, That I can force my ISP to change mine by changing my NIC card.
    Not to split hairs, but I have seen "NIC" as an acronym for both
    "network interface card" AND "network interface controller," so under
    the latter, "NIC card" is an acceptable use, and ripping on someone for
    saying it is sort of pointless.

    kr
     
    CCIE8122, Nov 27, 2003
    #56
  17. Andrew

    Bob Eager Guest

    I agree...and would not have bothered in isolation....but he was
    annoying me anyway!
     
    Bob Eager, Nov 27, 2003
    #57
  18. Andrew

    CCIE8122 Guest

    LOL!!!

    Cant disagree there.

    kr
     
    CCIE8122, Nov 27, 2003
    #58
  19. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    No.. It's not a troll.
    It's a simple point, and I am replying to a message that was
    posted in alt.computer.security, and cross posted to others.

    I can't understand how it's possible to talk about security,
    without this simple matter being perfectly understood by all parties.

    I can't quite get the difference between Address spaces, private address spaces,
    VPN and access to WANs provided by ISPs..
    My ISP provides access to their servers, as well as the Internet...
    But, I can comprehend reserved addresses, which may be private,
    or used for other purposes.. But public, escapes me...

    Basically, I want to know why my ISP needs to include my IP address
    in messages I post on their server..
    While when I purchase access to another server, they do not include my
    IP address in the header of messages I post on their server.
    My connection, in both casses is thru at least some portion of the network
    controlled by my ISP...
    For example, the speed with which I am able to send, and receive data
    to the other news server, is limited by the speed limits imposed by my ISP.

    Everything I've read says that IP addresses are used to communicate between
    a router, and
    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <YPwwb.6673$>
     
    mchiper, Dec 3, 2003
    #59
  20. OK. A couple of definitions (undoubtedly with holes in, but should suffice
    for the conversation)

    Private = a resource (e.g. a network, network address, or even telephone)
    that can only be used by its controller

    Public = everything else (e.g. a web site on the internet [as opposed to a
    file & print server in the bowels of the Accounting department], an Internet
    address that can be reached from outside of the organization [e.g. that web
    site, or perhaps a helpdesk], or a telephone kiosk)

    Virtual = acts like something else, but isn't really "there".

    These can be combined.. e.g. VPN = a private network that really isn't.
    Basically, you take a publicly accessible network, and use some gimcrackery
    to make it look like a private network. Think of it as a leased-line without
    the need to actually install a physical bit of wire.

    Now, let's take another look at those public addresses. Now, in theory I
    could just set up a server, call myself 1.2.3.4 and everyone'd be able to
    connect, right?

    Wrong.

    They'd need to know where I was, in order to direct requests to me. Which is
    where ICANN comes in - basically to make sure that the same address(es)
    can't get registered to different people, and that everyone one knows where
    to send requests to. There's a whole hierarchy here, so let's just leave it
    at that ;o)

    Just think of it as making sure that two people don't end up with the same
    phone number.

    Because lots of people have networks, they've also set across a few blocks
    that are designated as Private - i.e. are only for use inside corporations,
    and shall not be accessible from outside. Taking the phone analogy once
    more, thing of this as a PBX - if you dial 123 to talk to Bill, there's no
    guarantee that, if you move to a different company/PBX, dialling 123 will
    get you through to the same person.
    Ah. And now, I think, we have the /real/ question.

    Messages posted in (e.g.) Usenet use a particular protocol that sits way,
    way above IP. So do email servers.

    A few years back, we started getting the phenomenon of spam - unwanted
    messages. This quickly moved from Usenet (where the term originated) to
    email. Adding a header with the original poster's address was a way to
    combat that, but allowing spammers to be traced.

    These headers might not be mandatory, but they are recommended. If you can
    find someone willing to ignore the recommendation, then you can use their
    machines to post with. If they charge (and most probably will), then first
    make sure that they've not been blacklisted for spamming.
    <the rest appears to have been lost..?>

    IPs are like that phone number - if your ISP receives a complaint, then they
    can consult their "secret" phonebook to tell you off. If you're /really/
    unlucky, then someone else might be able to guess your town. If they get
    anything closer, then you've "leaked" the information elsewhere.

    HTH

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Dec 3, 2003
    #60
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