Private Address Spaces

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Andrew, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. Andrew

    James Knott Guest

    Well, the 10.x.x.x range gives you 24 bits of addresses or ~16M. How many
    do you need? Many ISPs, mine included use those private address ranges.
    As long as those addresses remain within that ISP, there's no problem.
    Also, bear in mind that other than this usage, there's no difference
    between private and public IP addresses. The only thing that causes them
    to behave differently, is the router configuration, which will block or
    allow them.
    --

    Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

    To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
    james.knott.
     
    James Knott, Nov 5, 2003
    #21
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  2. Andrew

    James Moe Guest

    One?
    One.
    Depends. If the pool of active users exceeds the pool of available
    addresses, 100%. Until then, 0%.
     
    James Moe, Nov 6, 2003
    #22
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  3. Andrew

    Don Kelloway Guest


    Ray,

    What you've quoted is from a post discussing the allocation of private
    IP addresses and the problems encountered when a company decides to use
    IP's addresses (registered to a different company) on the internal side
    of a device which performs Network Address Translation (NAT).

    Now in regards to your comments. I'm somewhat confused. Can you better
    explain what it is that you're trying to say and what does it have to do
    with the above subject?

    --
    Best regards,
    Don Kelloway
    Commodon Communications

    Visit http://www.commodon.com to learn about the "Threats to Your
    Security on the Internet".
     
    Don Kelloway, Nov 6, 2003
    #23
  4. Andrew

    nicklebon Guest

    silly legal fantasy deleted
    Basically, your wrong. Every site you connect to needs a routable
    address
    to which to send a response to your packets. Now whether you or ISP is
    is performing NAT or PAT to allow private or even duplicate IP is
    really another
    issue. Ultimatly the machine on the far end needs to know where to
    send the
    replies and the routers in between hither and thither will need to be
    able to route
    it. BTW only YOU are responsible for YOUR security for it to be any
    other way
    is not just asking for trouble your begging for it.
     
    nicklebon, Nov 7, 2003
    #24
  5. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    Silly technocratic reply retained..
    Of course !!!
    I vehemently dis agree..
    The ONLY question is:
    Is there a Law that says they MUST disclose the IP address they
    assign to me using a Dynamic assignmet scheme..
    I assert that IF I don't know what they are doing, that MIGHT impact
    on my privacy and well being.. Then they MUST
    1. Either inform me of their practices and allow my to DECLINE.
    2. Or protect me, so that I have NO REASON to KNOW.
    To do otherwise constitutes deception, and FRAUD.
    Especially when I have complained to them about it, and THEY have.
    1. Denied that it's a problem.
    2. Refused to take action when I reported a Denial of Service attack.
    3. Told me that the ONLY way I could get another IP address, was
    to install a new NIC card.. (To which I replied - NONSENSE.. !!!)
    4. And then "mysteriously" informed me that it had been changed.
    - They have the records...
    - I WILL call upon them to PRODUCED THEM in court !!!!

    IOW- You my friend are full of SHIT.
    Of course...
    It's the BASIS for proxies, etc.. and VPN too..

    OK...
    I agree.
    I don't trust anyone, IF given a choice..
    I don't need to read the fine print, to know what MY RIGHTs are.
    Juries are just people like me.. (IOW - network dummies..)
     
    mchiper, Nov 19, 2003
    #25
  6. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <tafqb.195465$>
    Thanks..
    So, basically,
    When an IP address resolves "nicely" as my attackers have suggested,
    It really mean that they know who OWNS the router, and nothing more.
    And IF my ISP changes the IP address, they have no way of knowing
    the FINAL destination..
    This is so called remapping of addresses from one address space to another,
    serves to discourage and thwart malicious attacks?
    Much like VPNs, proxy servers, etc, etc..
    So that returning to a specific users system, is precluded?
    And building on "innocent" looking packets of data, or what ever else
    was "deposited" for later mis-use, is prevented?

    Why wouldn't they do this...
    Or at the very LEAST, NOT include IP addresses in posts to NewsGroups?
     
    mchiper, Nov 19, 2003
    #26
  7. Sir:
    Depends upon where you are, your rights. In the US, ISPs are required
    by law to know your IP and to have records of the IP assigned to you and
    when you used them. There is a legal debate in court as to the legal
    method to require ISP to surrender this information to third parties,
    but not a debate about the fact that they have to when a proper writ is
    issued. This is not the place to be debating lawyer stuff that has
    little bearing upon your rights. BTW, you can change your NIC's mac
    address at any time you wish and when you wish to go thru your ISP
    enrollment process, if any. Your ISP has said (and you've repeated
    without understanding: "install a new NIC") that will cause a different
    IP to be assigned to you. Do it and save yourself a lot of telephone
    hassle vis your ISP. The question of how the ISP assigns IP to you is
    bogus. You have no need to know or care as it does not affect your
    rights or security. The only thing that affects your rights beyond the
    common & statute law rights is your ISP service agreement contract.
    Read it.

    Why is this thread being posted to Linux and OS/2 newsgroups? The only
    question of How-to change your NIC's mac address would be proper in
    these newsgroups, not everything else that has gone on in this thread
    previously. Start a new thread if you wish to ask that question as most
    who would know how, have killed this thread already. And don't
    cross-post to those alt newsgroups!
     
    William L. Hartzell, Nov 20, 2003
    #27
  8. Andrew

    CCIE8122 Guest

    This is a moot point. You can go to any of a number of sites to
    identify the address that is being dynamically assigned to you. Not to
    mention checking your access device--whether your PC or router.
    You misunderstand US privacy laws. These laws only prevent a party from
    disclosing your personal/customer info to third parties without your
    consent.

    They have nothing whatever to do with informing you of what they do
    internally, and CERTAINLY do not address computer/network security.
    "Deception" denotes misrepresentation, which is not taking place. Fraud
    constitutes inducement of some sort of consideration on your part
    through the use of falsified material facts.

    You allege none of these elements that would constitute a fraud case,
    and deception, per se, is not illegal.
    Then switch providers.
    This is not their responsibility.
    That is true, but your choice is to discontinue your relationship with
    this provider and go to another.
    I highly doubt you will take this to court. First of all, no class
    action law suit would fly, because in order to successfully litigate a
    class action, you really need commonality of action and injury to the
    class. You would have a hard time proving this. Second of all-- you
    are not going to get incidental damages for something like a DoS
    attack--at best you will get actual damages in the amount of pro rata
    service outage--a percentage of your monthly bill.

    This is hardly worth thousands in litigation, despite your tantrums to
    the contrary.
    Not really . . . I think you look at him in the mirror in the morning.

    LOL, you are not going to get a jury trial on something like this. In
    fact, you will probably have this case dismissed with prejudice on
    summary judgment.

    But keep dreaming . . .

    kr
     
    CCIE8122, Nov 20, 2003
    #28
  9. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <bphq8e$6ur$>
    You are probably right..
    I'm way over my head.
    BUT, at least I am TRYING !!!
    So...

    BULLSHIT !!!
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #29
  10. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <yUkqb.12079$>
    It's so simple...
    Is my IP address..
    The one assigned to me by my ISP, so that I may connect to THEIR network
    and communicate (through THEIR router.), a PRIVATE ADDRESS SPACE.
    Yes or NO ???

    IOW..
    Is it NOT merely a mumber that THEY assign to ME, so that THEY may
    direct packets from ME to OTHERS, and back to ME..

    Is it NOT true that they have NO NEED to disclose the ACTUAL NUMBER
    that they ASSIGNED to me, to OTHERS, to allow the communication to OCCUR..

    And that when they DO, that information exposes ME to serious PROBLEMS..

    Further that THEY continue to INSIST that this is MY problem..

    But, If my postman did the same thing, with the mail I put in my MAILBOX,
    (i.e. insert my REAL address on what I put in my MAILBOX), which is
    actually OWNED by the USPS, that I could have him put in JAIL.
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #30
  11. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <c1.2b5.2pDrww$>
    The question is FUNDAMENTAL..
    You all are the very ones promulgating the FANTASY..
    Is my IP address PRIVATE between me and my ISP???

    My ISP is a MONOPOLY in this jurisdiction..
    I can NOT just change from one to ANOTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #31
  12. Andrew

    nicklebon Guest

    In general ... NO! Why don't you look at the address and make the
    determination
    for yourself? If you don't know how to do the above then take a course
    in basic
    networking.
     
    nicklebon, Nov 24, 2003
    #32
  13. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <c1.2b5.2pDrww$>
    As I said before, to ALL the groups..
    Because the question is FUNDAMENTAL, and because it is IMPORTANT
    to every one who knows more about networks, computers, bits a,d bytes,
    than I DO !!!
    But I DO know How to do this mind boggling SIMPLE thing..
    So, it's NOT the ONLY question..
    Please DO NOT tell me How to protect MY privacy..
    I'll do BOTH of the things you suggest.
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #33
  14. Andrew

    Wireless Guest


    No, it's not.

    No, you don't understand how IP works.
    Of course they do. See comment on your misunderstanding of how TCP/IP works.

    While that's true, you have a responsibility to protect yourself. That
    applies to all users of the Internet.

    It is. Take some responsibility.

    Federal laws obviously cannot be applied to your situation. Compare apples
    and apples next time.
     
    Wireless, Nov 24, 2003
    #34
  15. Andrew

    Joe Pfeiffer Guest

    Not for any ISP I know of, but for all I know it might be.
    Yes, basically. Of course, it is either a public IP address from the
    block they own, or it is a private IP address.
    Whether or not they tell anybody about your IP address doesn't
    matter. The scanners the script kiddies out there are running simply
    go through all possible IP addresses (using somewhat smarter searches
    than starting at 0.0.0.1 and iterating from there, of course) looking
    for potentially vulnerable machines.

    If you've got a private IP address, the scanners can't find their way
    to you (but neither can anybody you might like to connect with you,
    either). If it's a public address, they can get to you no matter
    whether your ISP has somehow publicized your IP address or not.
    It is. Set up your firewall software to block any ports you don't
    want stuff coming in on (in the case of my home network that means,
    among other things, that absolutely no connections or pings are
    accepted from outside. Looks like there's no computer there at all).
    I don't follow. Your address is a matter of public record.

    And please, QUIT putting random WORDS in YOUR sentences in CAPS. It's
    really annoying to try to read.
     
    Joe Pfeiffer, Nov 24, 2003
    #35
  16. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <[email protected]>
    I have...
    Thanx...
    But I am not specifically referring to the "Internet" cloud..
    What I AM referring to is my IP address.
    The address that my ISP's router uses to communicate with ME.
    Before my packets get sent into the "Internet" cloud.
    Or to monitor what I do every second I'm on line.
    But even without that, they can still..
    Bring up my C:> prompt...
    With my permission?
    Well.. I do have to have my computer turned on..
    (Yes, I know... I haven't upgraded my machine/OS yet..)
    As you might just begun to realize..
    I have,,, I have....
    I have.. Apples and CRABapples.. :)
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #36
  17. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    Is this just another half truth?
    IF not why NOT?
    I have....
    What I have found is that in general they ARE.
    That my ISP can change them AT WILL..
    Or, That I can force my ISP to change mine by changing my NIC card.
    And, That I can CLONE my NIC card and create TWO NIC cards that
    will do "I don't know what" other than confuse the SHIT out of them. :)
    - I may be breaking some Federal law, IF, and when I do that though..
    - All it takes is an EEPROM burner and a little KNOW HOW !!
    - I din't know it when I started this "quest" for privacy. :)
    - All I knew was that TRUST sucks.. So PGP sucks too..
    OK..
    But I just don't need any more than the BASICs to do what I have said.
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #37
  18. Andrew

    Bob Eager Guest

    Why not....they own the block and are just letting you use an address.
    What's a NIC card? Or do you mean NIC? Or NI Card? But not a NIC card..
    On most cards, you don't need a burner - simply change the settings on
    the card.

    Look, your street address is public. You lock your doors to keep out bad
    people.

    Your IP address is effectively public, since it's in every packet you
    send out. Geta firewall to keep the bad guys out. Your responsibility
    again.
     
    Bob Eager, Nov 24, 2003
    #38
  19. No. The phrase "private address space" has a special meaning, specifically
    documented in RFC-1918.
    Yes. And please don't shout.
    They don't. Disclose it, that is. You do that all by yourself.
    Nope. Not real ones, anyway. An RFC trumps "voices in my head", at least on
    technical newsgroups.. ;o)
    You haven't actually stated a problem, just sprayed a response over a number
    of more-or-less innocent newsfroups.

    If you're stating that you "own" a particular IP assigned by your ISP, then
    scoot along to your local Registry (I'm guessing that you're US-based, so
    that would be ARIN). They should be able to set you straight on the
    difference between ownership and allocation.

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Nov 24, 2003
    #39
  20. Andrew

    mchiper Guest

    In alt.computer.security, Msg ID: <>
    Thankx Doc.
    Scuse me doc.
    Somewhere in here there's a fundamental flaw.
    1. My NIC card is presumably unique..
    (It has a MFG ID, and a SerialNUM
    (which conveivably can be counterfeiit.)
    2. I assume my MODEM has similar feechurs.
    3. I "disclose" these to my ISP, and ONLY my ISP.
    4. But my OS "has ways" to do whatever Bill Gates wants.
    (Now, or at any time in the foreseeable future.)

    And yet I hear that I must take RESPONSIBILITY...
    What's wrong with this ideology?
    HOW can I possibly protect what's mine?
    My identity as a human being.

    The PUBLIC record does NOT include everything I put in my mailbox.
    If I put my business mail in my mailbox, the recipients do NOT get to know
    1. My NAME or,
    2. My HOME address.
    It's called PRIVACY.
    The words in capital are NOT random words.
    It's written <B> ,,, </B> in OTHER languages. :)
     
    mchiper, Nov 24, 2003
    #40
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