Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by David, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. David

    kraftee Guest

    QED??????
     
    kraftee, Feb 14, 2014
    #41
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  2. Yep - probably a bill coming up from Sky (via Openreach) for fixing
    fault with user's wiring...
    :-(
     
    George Weston, Feb 14, 2014
    #42
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  3. David

    The Todal Guest

    I have had a succession of phone calls from Sky to check that I am
    satisfied with the broadband speed now. That's very nice of them.

    If I receive a bill from Sky or BT, I won't be paying it. It's one of my
    principles, you see. I don't pay for work unless warned in advance that
    the work might be chargeable. The new master socket was essential to
    optimise the speed of the connection (though it worked nearly as well
    without). My neighbour who has BT fibre broadband tells me that unlike
    Sky, BT don't do self-install and an engineer always calls to fit the
    dedicated Openreach master socket.
     
    The Todal, Feb 16, 2014
    #43
  4. David

    Phil W Lee Guest

    The only thing that I can see it proves is that there's no absolute
    necessity for an engineer visit to install FTTC, but that the option
    does need to be available for those who need it.
    I know my setup is FTTC ready, as the socket (there's only one, with
    no extensions or wiring for them) was upgraded to the FTTC type when
    an engineer visited not many months ago while resolving a problem with
    a sudden degradation in the line.
    Swapping the socket out was the first thing he did.
    So why would I pay extra for an engineer visit?
    Of course, there is the minor problem that I'd need to actually have
    FTTC available, but that's entirely out of my hands.

    When it does become available, I'll certainly get it self-install, if
    available. The engineer can visit the cabinet(s) whenever it fits in
    with his schedule without having to arrange a time with the customer,
    whereas a home visit can waste time for both the customer (me) and the
    engineer.
    I can certainly connect the VDSL modem between my router and the wall
    socket, and reconfigure the router to use the WAN ethernet port
    instead of it's built-in ADSL modem, and in my case, I'm fully aware
    that there is nothing else necessary.
    I'm also fully aware that this will be true for anyone who has a well
    functioning ADSL setup, which will already have any extension wiring
    run from the faceplate filter in more recent versions of the BT Master
    socket (mine is the most recent SSFP Infinity type with the RJ11 above
    and BT phone socket below, but I'd done the upgrade from a basic NTE5
    to an SSFP myself), as swapping them is a job well within the reach of
    anyone who can punch down wires.

    Just making a self-installation method available doesn't mean you have
    to remove the option of an engineer visit.

    Obviously, if someone chooses the DIY route and cocks it up, it's
    perfectly reasonable for them to have to pay for the engineer to come
    and fix it, and that it would be at a rather higher cost than the
    difference between a DIY install and a planned engineer install, not
    just because it's more expensive to arrange an un-planned visit but
    because it's probably desirable to discourage the inept from DIY.
     
    Phil W Lee, Feb 17, 2014
    #44
  5. David

    David Guest

    "Phil W Lee" wrote in message

    Do people when starting Broadband or changing ISP have an engineer from BT
    to come and plug their provided box in?
    I think not they just plug it in and a loose filter if not a filtered master
    socket.
    Of course if their BT master not up to it then they get BT to change it to a
    modern one.

    So I see no difference going to fibre they just plug a filter and box in.
    Sky provide a SR102 box in place of the previous SR101.

    I presume a customer with a filtered faceplate which is not a Mk.2 and
    performs badly Sky will say call BT and get them to change it and customer
    will pay BT.

    Regards
    David






    The only thing that I can see it proves is that there's no absolute
    necessity for an engineer visit to install FTTC, but that the option
    does need to be available for those who need it.
    I know my setup is FTTC ready, as the socket (there's only one, with
    no extensions or wiring for them) was upgraded to the FTTC type when
    an engineer visited not many months ago while resolving a problem with
    a sudden degradation in the line.
    Swapping the socket out was the first thing he did.
    So why would I pay extra for an engineer visit?
    Of course, there is the minor problem that I'd need to actually have
    FTTC available, but that's entirely out of my hands.

    When it does become available, I'll certainly get it self-install, if
    available. The engineer can visit the cabinet(s) whenever it fits in
    with his schedule without having to arrange a time with the customer,
    whereas a home visit can waste time for both the customer (me) and the
    engineer.
    I can certainly connect the VDSL modem between my router and the wall
    socket, and reconfigure the router to use the WAN ethernet port
    instead of it's built-in ADSL modem, and in my case, I'm fully aware
    that there is nothing else necessary.
    I'm also fully aware that this will be true for anyone who has a well
    functioning ADSL setup, which will already have any extension wiring
    run from the faceplate filter in more recent versions of the BT Master
    socket (mine is the most recent SSFP Infinity type with the RJ11 above
    and BT phone socket below, but I'd done the upgrade from a basic NTE5
    to an SSFP myself), as swapping them is a job well within the reach of
    anyone who can punch down wires.

    Just making a self-installation method available doesn't mean you have
    to remove the option of an engineer visit.

    Obviously, if someone chooses the DIY route and cocks it up, it's
    perfectly reasonable for them to have to pay for the engineer to come
    and fix it, and that it would be at a rather higher cost than the
    difference between a DIY install and a planned engineer install, not
    just because it's more expensive to arrange an un-planned visit but
    because it's probably desirable to discourage the inept from DIY.
     
    David, Feb 17, 2014
    #45
  6. David

    Jono Guest

    The Todal wrote on 16/02/2014 :
    Be prepared to be disconnected....
     
    Jono, Feb 17, 2014
    #46
  7. David

    Jono Guest

    David expressed precisely :
    With ADSL, the engineer has to visit the exchange to connect it up.

    With FTTC, an engineer has to get to your cabinet too - he may as well
    pop to your house.
     
    Jono, Feb 17, 2014
    #47
  8. David

    David Guest

    Surprised at that on the house call.
    Regards
    David




    "Jono" wrote in message




    With FTTC, an engineer has to get to your cabinet too - he may as well
    pop to your house.
     
    David, Feb 17, 2014
    #48
  9. Why do you think it is sensible for an engineer to drive several miles
    for no purpose?

    Hint: Phone lines may cross obstacles that can't be driven or walked
    across.
     
    Rupert Moss-Eccardt, Feb 19, 2014
    #49
  10. David

    Jono Guest

    Rupert Moss-Eccardt expressed precisely :
    Don't be so obtuse. I was responding to "Do people when starting
    Broadband or changing ISP have an engineer from BT to come and plug
    their provided box in?"
    I would say, they would be exceptions rather than rules. Either way, I
    didn't suggest the engineer should swim to the property.
     
    Jono, Feb 19, 2014
    #50
  11. David

    David Guest

    Thanks for all the responses to my OP.

    Mk2 BT/OR faceplate fitted from advice given. One point I will mention if
    anyone doing the same ie taking ADSL Nation filtered faceplate off you need
    to find and use the original lower half front for the master box and
    transfer your house phone wiring.

    I have now agreed price/terms with Sky for my transfer from Be Unlimited to
    Sky Fibre package.

    There is a lot of negative things said about the Sky SR102 hub on various
    places on the internet I would like to remain positive that it will be ok
    for my needs.

    One thing is regarding the wi-fi range I know this is going to be a how long
    is a piece of string question but I would like in summer to be able to use a
    laptop in the garden and in my man shed. The hub will be in the hall which
    is in middle of house and to get outside the signal will pass through one
    internal wall and an outside wall will it get up the garden for 20-30 feet?

    Regards
    David
     
    David, Feb 20, 2014
    #51
  12. David

    Graham J Guest


    We can't possibly tell you. Try it.

    If it doesn't work run an outdoor grade Ethernet cable (or two) to the
    shed and fit a wireless access point there to serve the garden.
     
    Graham J, Feb 20, 2014
    #52
  13. David

    John Weston Guest

    On my FTTC installation last October, my ADSLnation ADSL faceplate was
    used by the Openreach contracted installer and it's worked fine at the
    full advertised FTTC speed ever since. I asked if he wanted it removing
    and he said he could use that type for VDSL, using somewhat different
    words, previousley reported here...

    Since faceplates like this one use an "advanced filter design", I assume
    the cut-off characteristics meet the different DSL signal frequency
    requirements. After all, it is only a low-pass filter removing the
    signal above the speech band from the home telephone wiring, leaving the
    DSL side connected straight through. With VDSL, this design of filter
    must block the higher frequencies and have sharper cut-off
    charactristics as required for VDSL. Perhaps it's only the old, basic LC
    filters that need replacing?

    I would suggest not bothering trying to refit the original faceplate
    since Openreach must meet many cases where a filtered faceplate has been
    fitted. In cases where they did the original ADSL installation, they
    kept or scrapped the original faceplate anyway.
     
    John Weston, Feb 22, 2014
    #53
  14. David

    kraftee Guest

    If Openreach did do the fit, for ADSL, then the faceplate filter normally
    used will not have the same frequency cut off. If on the other hand you've
    had a fault investigated over the last few years they would have fitted the
    newer spec faceplate filter. It's very easy to see the difference as the
    old one sticks out whilst the newer one covers the whole of the backplate.
     
    kraftee, Feb 22, 2014
    #54
  15. David

    John Weston Guest

    Does the cut-of at around 4kHz, at the top of the 0.3-3.4kHz
    telephone band have to be different for ADSL (SIN346) and VDSL?
    That's what the low-pass filter does - removes everything
    higher than ~4kHz from the house telephone wiring and
    equipment. I agree, though, that the VDSL frequencies go
    higher that ADSL+ so the low-pass filter must block these
    higher frequencies, - which is often not the case with those
    like the original BT LC version.

    My installation described above wasn't an original Openreach
    install and has never had its faceplate filter changed by them
    - arguably a chargeable job... All their testing during fault
    finding has been done using the test socket and my part of the
    installation, including my filter, was never suspect. When OR
    did the VDSL install, it was using my ADSLnation XTE-2005 with
    an active filter - I've been using them for years on ADSL
    installs and it now seems to be OK for VDSL...

    I wouldn't be surprised if my OR installer broke the rules to
    save time but he did say "I know what I'm doing"... Did he?
     
    John Weston, Feb 23, 2014
    #55
  16. David

    kraftee Guest

    It all depends on whether he had been briefed. Emails have been sent, but
    no time allowed to read emails and 'team talks' are once again very low
    priority so he most probably hadn't been 'told',
     
    kraftee, Feb 23, 2014
    #56
  17. David

    totalvr67 Guest

    The solution here isn't to either do self installs for all like Sky or force an engineer on everyone like BT. But simply to give people the choice. "Do you want a self install or help from a Openreach engineer?", simple. Personally I actively don't want one coming to my house, so I'm glad Sky do self install. But people should have the choice.
     
    totalvr67, Apr 24, 2014
    #57
  18. David

    Brian Mc Guest

    wrote:
    : The solution here isn't to either do self installs for all like Sky or
    : force an engineer on everyone like BT. But simply to give people the choice. : "Do you want a self install or help from a Openreach engineer?", simple.
    : Personally I actively don't want one coming to my house, so I'm glad Sky
    : do self install. But people should have the choice.

    BT are more complex than you say - Infinity 1 (38Mb) is now self-install while
    Infinity 2 (78Mb) gets an engineer still.

    Self installs (like Sky and some BT) are unlikely to produce optimum speeds
    UNLESS for those people who know "the tricks" - such as disconnecting the
    ring wire - which also apply to improving the ADSL speed!

    I did not particularly WANT an engineer but found he was hard to avoid!
    As it happened he was so helpful and installed a new master socket on what
    used to be an extension - properly crimping the incoming wire through - that
    I was pleased he had come!
     
    Brian Mc, Apr 28, 2014
    #58
  19. David

    Kraftee Guest

    You forgot it can't be fitted on an extension, try explaining that to
    someone who can't be bothered to read the documentation which gets sent when
    they have placed to order " Our broadband has always been fed from this
    extension so this new version should as well" and as for the missing
    routers!? "We weren't expecting any parcels so we haven't bothered to
    respond to the card left by the postman as it was obviously not for us".
    Just had mine installed a couple of days ago.

    Did the 'engineer' do anything to test the quality of my line, nope
    ..
    Did he do anything to test my connection speeds, nope, in fact he was a
    complete waste of space and didn't need to visit at all (well he was a
    contractor).

    I think/know that having an engineering visit is a little bit like the
    'parsons nose'.....Good in parts but in others absolutely awful but for the
    'unwashed masses' it's still the 'cheapest' option, remembering of course
    that if you do a self install and make a mistake it can cost you over £100
    just to have a knock on your door (and the number of times the people who
    supposedly know getting it wrong well.......it helps pay my wages so I'm not
    complaining).
     
    Kraftee, Apr 28, 2014
    #59
  20. David

    Brian Mc Guest

    : > I did not particularly WANT an engineer but found he was hard to avoid!
    : > As it happened he was so helpful and installed a new master socket on what
    : > used to be an extension - properly crimping the incoming wire through -
    : > that
    : > I was pleased he had come!

    : Just had mine installed a couple of days ago.

    : Did the 'engineer' do anything to test the quality of my line, nope
    : .
    : Did he do anything to test my connection speeds, nope, in fact he was a
    : complete waste of space and didn't need to visit at all (well he was a
    : contractor).

    I must have been lucky - I got a helpful iand genuine OpenReach guy and he
    DID test the connection after he had moved the master socket to a bedroom
    by crimping the incoming AB pair onto an extension pair.
     
    Brian Mc, Apr 28, 2014
    #60
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