Preparing for Transfer to Sky Fibre from copper.

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by David, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Sky charge £50 plus £25 a month. The BT charge £30 plus £15.99 a
    month. As for the position, get it right first time.

    Steve
     
    Stephen Wolstenholme, Feb 2, 2014
    #21
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  2. What makes you say that?

    If you look at the reviews of the SR102 you'll see that it is both V and
    A (after all, VDSL is just a special sort of ADSL)
     
    Rupert Moss-Eccardt, Feb 2, 2014
    #22
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  3. David

    Phil W Lee Guest

    AVM Fritz!Box do a number of different integrated ones.
    Don't order from Amazon though, or you'll end up with a German
    version.
    Pretty expensive, but more functionality than you can shake a stick
    at.
     
    Phil W Lee, Feb 2, 2014
    #23
  4. David

    Graham. Guest

    sky.com/broadband/set-up-sky-broadband/set-up-your-sky-hub-for-sky-fibre#!black-sky-hub

    Looks like you are right then.

    http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1862925

    I'm still not apologising to Sky for calling them tossers, there are
    potential issues with their self install that they need to address.
     
    Graham., Feb 2, 2014
    #24
  5. David

    Graham. Guest


    And if it needs moving, do it yourself. What's the worst that can
    happen?
     
    Graham., Feb 2, 2014
    #25
  6. David

    kraftéé Guest

    The bandwidth used for VDSL is not the same as for DSL, hence the differing
    filters

    If you check the graphics you will plainly see that that the black hub is
    using the RJ11 port not a RJ45 and if you check in the actual instructions
    it states DSL not VDSL.

    QED the black hub is not VDSL and with the white ones an intermediary
    device is being used.

    Now if Sky want to sort out their own web site fine but anybody trying to
    read something into a badly written, unclear set of instructions and cause
    it to not work will be subject to charges when the Openreach engineer calls.
     
    kraftéé, Feb 3, 2014
    #26
  7. David

    kraftéé Guest

    Your link directly sends you to another forum where the discussion is about
    HH not SKY hubs.

    Further down it then starts to speak about the new VDSL filter already being
    fitted.

    Either way if you haven't got the requisite hardware IE a new type VDSL
    filter you will have to have an engineering visit, if only just to change
    the filtering.
     
    kraftéé, Feb 3, 2014
    #27
  8. Correct, it is either ADSL or VDSL, depending on what is being offered
    to it by the upstream equipment.

    Your fixation on the connector does you no favours. Rj45 tends to be
    used for Ethernet and also structured cabling, neither of which apply here.
    But the Openreach engineer won't be calling. There are many, many BT
    products that, although using CPE, don't require an OR presence.
     
    Rupert Moss-Eccardt, Feb 3, 2014
    #28
  9. David

    Jono Guest

    kraftéé formulated on Monday :
    To connect a VDSL modem to the line, you would use an RJ11 to RJ11
    cable usually.

    The black box expects there to be no Openreach VDSL modem.

    The white box requires the Openreach modem....so really, it's the white
    one that's not VDSL (it's basically got an Ethernet WAN port to connect
    to an in-line VDSL modem)
     
    Jono, Feb 3, 2014
    #29
  10. David

    kraftéé Guest

    And who is going to be around the corner furtling away to get the service to
    the end user.

    No matter which way you approach this problem an Openreach engineer (or
    contractor) has to have some input. Not having a site visit is not the
    wonderful thing which people are implying because if it's working ok outside
    and the end user is having problems the pound signs just start clicking up.

    Yes I know that there are some knowledgeable posters and readers on this
    group but this matter has to be aimed at the lowest common denominator in an
    attempt to curtail any possible charge able visits.
     
    kraftéé, Feb 4, 2014
    #30
  11. But 'wires only' ADSL has been a product since the last decade and
    didn't require a site visit.
    And people have been moved from ADSL to 2+ without a site visit for
    years and years.

    Are you saying that this change in frequency usage is so very different?
     
    Rupert Moss-Eccardt, Feb 5, 2014
    #31
  12. ADSL uses frequencies up to about 2MHz, just beyond the medium wave
    broadcasting band. VDSL uses frequencies up to about 12MHz, which is
    in the 25 metre short wave band, and several times what is required
    for high definition baseband analogue video signals. They're both used
    on miles of wiring optimised for not particularly high fidelity audio,
    often terminating in homebrew extension wiring perpetrated by people
    who are not experts.

    The more I learn about how these systems work, the more astonished I
    am that they work at all. I don't know what the actual figures are,
    but I find it entirely credible that a 12MHz system on audio cables
    would incur more setup problems than a 2MHz one if the wiring is not
    routinely given an initial check by somebody who knows what they are
    doing. Routine preemptive home visits are probably cheaper and less
    bother to organise than emergency ones to fix problems after they have
    occurred.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Feb 5, 2014
    #32
  13. David

    Jono Guest

    It happens that kraftéé formulated :

    That's nothing to do with my response....
     
    Jono, Feb 5, 2014
    #33
  14. David

    Jono Guest

    No.

    The changes you refer to require effort at the telephone exchange.

    For FTTC, someone's got to drive to your street cab and furtle away
    until the service is rejumpered & provided.
     
    Jono, Feb 5, 2014
    #34
  15. David

    kraftéé Guest

    I'm glad I can make sense to someone;-)

    In the early days of self install DSL the number of _chargable_ visits where
    the end user stated that they didn't require filtering etc because they had
    read it on the newsgroup was absolutely mind boggling and mindset is still
    being encountered today.

    Referring to that Sky website, where does it tell you what to do if you have
    extensions on the back of the non filtered face plate (one pending
    chargeable engineering visit there) and so it goes on. With all the kit I
    have met up with so far the ones which are 'modem' free connect by RJ45 not
    RJ11 which is why I'm stating that the black Sky hub is for DSL not
    VDSL/FTTP.

    But you just can't tell some people. If it's on a website then it has to be
    correct appears to be the mantra, well I won't mind putting in the charges
    when I get back to the coal face. If the service provider doesn't get it
    right and I'll let the 2 squabble about it after I've left (remember any
    work done inside the property in order to fix a fault is chargeable, hell
    even if the fault is on the dropwire above the property i.e thru that tree
    in the front garden, it is now deemed chargeable).
     
    kraftéé, Feb 5, 2014
    #35
  16. David

    kraftéé Guest

    Yes, more attenuation in the network, less forgiving about substandard
    wiring and the story goes on. How many times are you still reading about
    problems which are easily resolved by correct filtering and the correct
    extension wiring. Well with FTTP it will be worse, just wait for the first
    one to post 'why can't I get it working on the extension socket in my
    office' (a chargeable visit to fix) even now trying to explain to people, to
    their face, can take longer than actually getting their service installed
    correctly.

    Chargeable visits are still being made to fix the more normal self installed
    DSL circuits and that's after a decade of reasonable advice being available,
    what do you think will be the short term result of random self installation
    of the FTTP product? Yes you and I may be able to get it right but we're
    not representative of the 'normal' end user who just wants it to plug and
    play without any other work or information.

    As I've said before on this group, yes there are some who are knowledgeable
    on here but there are also those (possibly a larger number) who are led
    around by the people who post the more dynamic diatribe ignoring the facts
    as they are at variance to the posters personal mantra.

    Engineering visits may cost a little more on the installation but what with
    the work which sometimes has to be made, very seldom have I had a quicky
    faceplate change installation though I'm not saying that there aren't any,
    it can be false economy (with the way chargers ramp up it comes to a pretty
    penny even before the first hour is up)

    But let the nay sayers have their way and I'll just keep bunging in the
    charges, at least it will keep my bosses happy.
     
    kraftéé, Feb 5, 2014
    #36
  17. David

    Jono Guest

    http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-2860

    Dual personality RJ11 port VDSL/ADSL
     
    Jono, Feb 5, 2014
    #37
  18. David

    Bob Eager Guest

    Bob Eager, Feb 5, 2014
    #38
  19. David

    The Todal Guest

    I have the SR102 and Sky broadband. I ordered the fibre service to
    replace my ADSL. The SR102 was delivered with a sticker on it warning me
    not to connect it until my activation date. I ignored that and connected
    up my SR102 and it worked absolutely fine for ADSL and then when my
    fibre service started, the SR102 immediately showed a huge increase in
    speed, without even a reboot.

    I have connected it to my various home-made extension sockets around the
    house and also to the master socket in the hall and there is no
    detectable variation in performance.

    None of this required a visit from a BT engineer.
     
    The Todal, Feb 10, 2014
    #39
  20. David

    The Todal Guest

    I'd better give an update now. My fibre broadband speed was rather lower
    than it should have been, but pretty good nevertheless. The figures were
    download 27, upload about 3.

    A BT engineer visited, discovered that my main socket had extension
    wires connected to it in an unapproved manner so gave me a new socket
    and rewired the extensions. I now connect the Sky router only to the
    main socket, it gives me about 34,7 and if I connect it to an extension
    it no longer works from an extension. The individual ADSL filters on the
    phone sockets are no longer necessary.
     
    The Todal, Feb 14, 2014
    #40
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