Post Office B/B

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Woody, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Woody

    Kraftee Guest

    Who then blame it on Openreach, who turn up and find it's the router that is

    It's happened on more than a few times, I'm afraid.
    Kraftee, Aug 14, 2014
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  2. Woody

    Kraftee Guest

    Make it an AM appointment and hope you get the older/more experienced
    engineer who will sit on the job and do everything they can to resolve the
    problem. The younger ones tend to be more 'stat' orientated than the older,
    the older ones just want to get the job done _right_first_time_ no matter
    how long it takes and as long as the tracker keeps them inside the zone
    (which will stretch from the end users property to the exchange) and as long
    as the job is closed off at, or close to, the end user then they get left
    alone (normally).
    Kraftee, Aug 14, 2014
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  3. Woody

    Graham J Guest

    Woody wrote:

    Comments in-line ...
    Were you aware of any thunderstorms in the area? Brief breaks in power
    can show as router resets.

    Sometimes routers show separate power-on times and connection-up times -
    look for both.
    Up- and down-stream use different parts of the spectrum and it is
    reasonable to expect the sort of differences you see.

    You don't say what sync speeds the router reports for downstream and
    upstream; why not?

    But for 26dB loss downstream I would expect to see much lower than 12dB
    SNR margin - something nearer 6dB. This suggests that there has been
    noise affecting the downstream performance, even if it currently isn't

    Wireless is a red herring. While you are testing, disable it
    completely and connect all the computers by Ethernet cables.
    Always essential to fix the IP address of a printer. Not needed for
    laptop, and may cause confusion if it is changed from wireless to wired.

    Should be irrelevant as far as router resets are concerned.

    But, a dodgy cable or broken network interface on a computer could
    conceivably confuse the router enough to make it reboot. As will an
    intermittent mains supply - look for dodgy extension cables.

    Is the router in full sun and likely to overheat?

    Sometimes the DSLAM will tell the router to re-sync, and sometimes the
    router will interpret this as a reboot. This can happen when the DSLAM
    detects noise, so that the resync sets a higher SNR margin and lower
    sync speed.

    Fit a faceplate microfilter and ensure that any extension phone wiring
    is correctly connected to the back of the faceplate filter. Inspect the
    wiring from the master socket to the outside world - is it BT cable
    going direct, or is there evidence of other wiring perhaps installed by
    a builder?

    Investigate routerstats and see if you can leave a computer running with
    routerstats installed to log the router's performance. That way you
    should capture any resets or re-syncs. You may be able to capture
    corrected and uncorrected errors - even a cheap TP-Link router will show

    Then swap the router and compare performance.

    If both show disconnections, see if there is any pattern; similarly see
    if there is a pattern in the error counts. If so try and relate the
    patterns to a cause (CH boiler, fridge, nearby electric welding,
    streetlights, RAF base radar or radio, taxi company, wind or rain) and
    resolve. If no pattern report it to the ISP as an intermittent fault
    and be prepared to send the routerstats logs. At this stage it may pay
    to change to a professional ISP first; you want an ISP that will
    understand the logs.

    Consider running the laptop and router from a big UPS and shut off the
    incoming mains at the consumer unit. Does this improve reliability?

    It's very common to see re-syncs in the early hours of the morning (say
    1am to 5am). I think BT break their network at these times.
    Routerstats will show you whether ADSL sync was maintained but the PPP
    connection dropped - you can sometimes log the actual public IP address
    (obviously no point if you buy a service with a static IP).
    Graham J, Aug 14, 2014
  4. Woody

    Woody Guest

    Comments inserted....

    None of either - and this has been going on since day 1 -
    the weather has only 'lost' summer in the last week.
    This one shows connection duration only.
    Because the router does not report them - at least as far as
    I can find.
    These figures were constant during the hour over which I
    monitored it - from a reboot remember.
    You are new to this thread I think. One of the other issues
    was that the laptop often found the printer "off line" when
    in fact DHCP had issued different addresses so in terms of
    IP the laptop was sending print commands to itself, hence
    why I have fixed both.
    It will never be changed from wireless to wired - which I
    knew and was why I did it.
    The router is brand new, delivered 30th June. I connected it
    and it has not been shifted since. Powered off a wall
    On the floor behind a chair. The only window is north
    As I said I think you are new to this thread. I fitted a
    vDSL iPlate which reduced the ping from 36mS to 31mS and
    increased the download speed from 7.47Mb to 10.69Mb when
    checked before and after with Speedtest using the Warwick
    University servers. The wiring to the NTE5 is direct from
    the serving pole which is about 20ft behind the house and
    has an overall run of about 50ft. Also, as I said, on a
    quiet line test it is like the grave.
    Router cannot handle Routerstats as it (a) is an unknown
    type as far as the prog is concerned and (b) it does not
    comply with the required login format.
    Same login process for my spare router - same make,
    different model - so still incompatible.
    CH is not on at this time of year
    The nearest fridge is two rooms away
    Residential area, no welding
    Daytime tests so no street lights
    Not seen any RAF stations in the middle of Harrogate lately
    No taxi co anywhere within at least a mile. Nearest cell
    site about 1/4 mile almost line of sight.
    Test day had been wet but that had gone away and weather was
    dry and still.
    User cannot change ISP as he only started the contract with
    Post Office on 1st July so is tied to them for at least a
    year. PO broadband is supplied by TalkTalk.
    Totally impractical in this application.
    As I said, service supplied by TT which is LLU in serving
    exchange so BT have nothing to do with it. And I can't use

    The object of the exercise here is to confirm that the
    wiring is good as the first thing TT will do for a fault
    report is to send someone to the house to check the line -
    with a £144 charge if the fault is there. The router is
    connected to the NTE5 via the filter faceplate; there are
    two other internal cables, both Kroned to the back of the
    NTE5 faceplate and in two-wire only.

    Given that the exchange is less than 1Km away along a
    straight road (and yes the line does follow it,) my
    suspicion is that it is a router or DSLAM issue with which
    TT agree but they have a process to follow. The router is
    the easiest primary change but as I am on cable I don't have
    another ADSL router of a different make with which to test
    it I'm fast running out of options. The user is elderly and
    does not like the prospect of a £144 charge even if it is
    Woody, Aug 15, 2014
  5. Woody

    Graham J Guest

    Woody wrote:
    [snip]Cheaper to buy a router that supports Routerstats and try that ...

    Always a good diagnostic tool to have!

    Others here will make recommendations and perhaps give configuration
    details for routerstats.

    Re fridge and the like: if such equipment generates mains-borne
    interference the effect can be widespread - certainly to adjacent
    properties. RAF menwith Hill is certainly near enough to cause a
    problem is by mistake they were transmitting something unusual, but you
    might expect other people to see similar problems.

    But a router that allows you to run diagnostics is the first place to start.
    Graham J, Aug 15, 2014
  6. That's good, it equates to a line of roughly 1.5 - 2 km long.
    Also good.
    It is, don't worry about it.
    The line looks fine. I would definitely try another router at this
    Mike Tomlinson, Aug 15, 2014
  7. Woody

    Woody Guest

    Tnx Mike. I found another table that shows 26dB as being
    0.87Km which is actually about right but it suggests that
    with ADSL2 the end download should be around 23Mb and he is
    only getting 10 albeit solid.

    Second router is the next try.
    Woody, Aug 15, 2014
  8. I wonder if there's some aluminium somewhere between the socket and the
    exchange? Is the line fed by a drop-wire or underground?
    Plusnet Support Team, Aug 15, 2014
  9. Woody

    Woody Guest

    Drop wire but only about 20ft or so and then internal to the
    NTE5 with no breaks.

    I've just spoken to the user and since my visit last night
    it has behaved perfectly - apparently!

    Sod's Law methinks?
    Woody, Aug 15, 2014
  10. Woody

    Phil W Lee Guest

    Irrespective of the theoretical minimum length of the contract, it
    appears that the supplier is already breaking it by failing to provide
    an adequate service.
    An ex-supplier tried that on me, and were amazingly fast at providing
    a MAC when I pointed that out to them.
    It's worth pointing out that a decent quality supplier doesn't need to
    use a minimum contract length to keep their customers - they won't
    want to leave anyway.
    Phil W Lee, Aug 16, 2014
  11. Woody

    Kraftee Guest

    Anything electrical can cause problems, all the way from the 'wall wart'
    power supply, thru Sky/NTL/BT/Tevo boxes, PCs up to Jacuzzi/hot tubs. In
    other words anything fed by a (cheap) switch mode power supply.
    Kraftee, Aug 16, 2014
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