poll - did you miss the voting about dividing r.p.d?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Roland Karlsson, Oct 22, 2004.

  1. Roland Karlsson

    Matt Ion Guest

    The American Heritage Dictionary of English defines as camera as:
    "1. An apparatus for taking photographs, generally consisting of a
    lightproof enclosure having an aperture with a shuttered lens through
    which the image of an object is focused and recorded on a photosensitive
    film or plate."

    A CCD or or CMOS sensor could be considered a "photosensitive plate".

    Princeton University WordNet is even broader:
    "1: equipment for taking photographs (usually consisting of a lightproof
    box with a lens at one end and light-sensitive film at the other)"
     
    Matt Ion, Oct 23, 2004
    #81
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  2. Roland Karlsson

    Matt Ion Guest

    Roland Karlsson wrote:

    The term is about as self-explanatory as it gets: point the camera,
    shoot the picture, no other interaction required. Technically, an SLR
    on "full-auto" mode could fall under this category.

    So why are you getting so wound up about it?
     
    Matt Ion, Oct 23, 2004
    #82
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  3. Under the new group, P&S cameras will have no manual settings (other than
    maybe white balance or minor things)..no aperture priority, no shutter
    priority. Cameras like the Nikon 2100, 2200, 3100, 3200, 3700, 4100, 4200,
    5100, 5200, and Canon S400, S410, S500, S510, A300, A310, A400, etc.
     
    Woodchuck Bill, Oct 23, 2004
    #83
  4. Roland Karlsson

    Ed Ruf Guest

    If you'd quit obsessing with threads such as this you'd have more time to
    read the real threads that contain useful info.

    I knew about the vote, but due to a lot of travel and lack of due diligence
    on my part I didn't vote. As proposed I would have voted no as a whole. In
    any case, so be it.

    Constructively, use a real news reader and make use of:
    - killfiles
    - watch thread markings
    - ignore thread markings
    - keep message markings

    Finally, it's just usenet, get a grip. Go away for a while, so what? Just
    mark things current If you miss something, so what? Is it that stinking
    important? If it is, I hope you are doing daily backups of your
    newsreader's data files. If you're not doing this, you need to take a
    breath and put it in the proper perspective.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
     
    Ed Ruf, Oct 23, 2004
    #84
  5. Just out of curosity I picked one random camera - A400

    You can set:
    ISO
    Zoom
    Manual Focus
    Macro position
    White Balance
    Exposure compensation
    Resolution
    Movie mode
    Metering method
    JPEG quality
    Continous mode
    Flash mode

    Oops - not a P&S in the slightest IMHO.

    So - lets look at the S400 then

    You can set:
    ISO
    Zoom
    Manual Focus
    Macro position
    White Balance
    Exposure compensation
    Resolution
    Movie mode
    Metering method
    JPEG quality
    Continous mode
    Flash mode

    Oops - the same.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 23, 2004
    #85
  6. Right now - my interest in this group is this thread :)

    I scan the other topics - but I don't really find anything
    interesting at all right now.
    You have missed my point. I am not afraid of missing stuff - you always
    do all the time. I missed this vote :) My main point is that the groups
    that now have been created are rather bogus. Both the zlr and the p&s
    terms have no clear meaning as people tend to have very different
    opinions on what they mean. As a matter of fact, the charter do not
    match my own opinion at all. zlr are the Oly 1400, OM10 and OM20 and
    some few more. P&S does not really exist in the digital world. At
    least not the one that readers of USENET is interested in.

    One example. It is not all that hard to predict that EVF cameras with
    exchangable lenses will arrive soon. Real SLR are better in some ways.
    But - it is perfectly possible that most of the problems with EVF cameras
    will be overcome. So - whats the group for those? And where is the group
    for digital MF backs? And scanning LF backs?


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 23, 2004
    #86
  7. Roland Karlsson

    Ryadia Guest

    Could you post a link to that one please?
     
    Ryadia, Oct 23, 2004
    #87
  8. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    I'm confused. Are you suddenly agreeing with this definition of ZLR, which
    is different from the one you agreed with during the pre-vote discussion?
    I'm not saying the E10/20 aren't ZLRs, I'm saying they're not the *only*
    ZLRs in existence.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 23, 2004
    #88
  9. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    It doesn't matter; it's a marketing term, not a technical one.
    No, that's not the case. Had you not ignored the discussions you would
    have already been through this entire issue over a period of months.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #89
  10. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    This very point, using these exact cameras as examples, was discussed at
    excruciating length before the vote. It was, in fact, probably the single
    most-discussed point in the entire process. Everything you are saying has
    not only been said, it has been ripped apart and reconstructed, looked at
    from every possible angle, and covered again and again until everyone was
    pretty much tired of the whole thing and knew that the only possible
    conclusion had been reached. Then the dead horse was beaten, again and
    again, until it was nothing more than a grease spot on the pavement.
    After all that, some people discussed it some more, even.

    Let it go. It's utterly pointless to start over and have the same exact
    discussion over again, especially since the vote has already taken place
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #90
  11. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    Did you even read the pre-vote discussions? This was all discussed for
    *months*. It's rather extraordinarily frustrating to see the whole thing
    starting over with *exactly* the same points being raised.

    In this particular case -- do you really think that "point and shoot" means
    "someone who doesn't know anything"? Because it doesn't. Most of us DSLR
    users also have p+s cameras. I've got one. Do you think that owning it
    makes me an un-knowledgeable person, or do you think that being knowledgeable
    means I am forbidden from reading that group?
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #91
  12. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    If you have a better name for them, then, it really is a shame that you
    missed the discussion. Because we went over and over it and no one could
    come up with any alternatives.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #92
  13. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    It is impossible for most people to read *this* group. It is too busy, and
    most of the posts are of no interest to any particular person. I've left
    this group from time to time because I can't keep up. The only reason I'm
    able to even give it a try is that I happen to have a job where I can keep
    my newsreader running all day. I wouldn't even be here otherwise; it would
    simply not be practical to read this group.

    There are a lot of people who are interested in digital photography who are
    not reading this group for that exact reason; they tried, and gave up. Some
    of those people were heard from in the pre-vote discussion.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #93
  14. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    It doesn't matter. The terms mean what people think they mean, and the
    groups will be used accordingly. It is not necessary to define exact
    lines of demarcation and enforce them with zero tolerance. It will be
    worked out naturally by the people using the groups -- almost none of
    whom will ever read the charters.
    Please, just go read the pre-vote discussion. Everything you are bringing
    up was discussed at great length, and every question you just asked was
    answered many times.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #94
  15. Roland Karlsson

    Jeremy Nixon Guest

    I agree. The number of across-the-board yes votes is bothersome. It
    is unlikely there are that many people with an active interest in reading
    all four new groups (especially the rangefinder one). I voted yes to the
    two groups I'm interested in, the SLR and p+s ones, and abstained on the
    others. I'd have expected most people to do something similar, though
    with different combinations of groups.
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Oct 24, 2004
    #95
  16. Roland Karlsson

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Then I'd like to know whether the Olympus C70 is a ZLR or a point-and-
    shoot. What is the difference between a ZLR and a point-and-shoot ?
     
    Alfred Molon, Oct 24, 2004
    #96
  17. I'm saying that the term ZLR applies to both fixed-lens SLRs like the E20,
    and fixed-lens non-SLRs like the Sony 828. A ZLR may be an SLR with a fixed
    lens, or an SLR-like camera with a fixed lens like the Fuji S5000.
     
    Woodchuck Bill, Oct 24, 2004
    #97
  18. Roland Karlsson

    Alfred Molon Guest

    What does the Olympus 8080 have in common with an SLR ?
     
    Alfred Molon, Oct 24, 2004
    #98
  19. Does the C70 have manual aperture/shutter speed settings?
     
    Woodchuck Bill, Oct 24, 2004
    #99
  20. It is categorized as an SLR-like camera by DCViews.com, DPReview.com, and
    most of the other review sites, for one.
     
    Woodchuck Bill, Oct 24, 2004
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