Polaroid / Foveon x530 ... anyone else anxiously waiting to get one?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Owen Coors, Oct 8, 2004.

  1. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    I'll say right up front, that if I could afford the Sigma slrs... I'd
    certainly have one (or more)! Since I can't though, I am really hoping
    for a VERY good experience with Polaroids compact/p&s version. Even if
    I had the Sigmas, I'd want to get this camera to see if it is a
    worthy, "have with me alway" camera. Whether I choose to look at it as
    a 1.5mp or 2.75mp resolution equivalent or 4.5mp camera... it matters
    not, because to date my best digital image maker has been an old
    1.68mp, bayer sensor, Canon Pro70. The Pro70 will print well up to
    8x10... and it is only lacking (my opinion) in the color department. I
    use color management and icc profiles for the Pro70, but I'm hoping to
    get even better color from foveons latest chip... even if it is in a
    little plastic body.

    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 8, 2004
    #1
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  2. While no one has any experience with this camera we do have experience with
    people who say nice things about Sigma. Our experience is that is you have
    anything nice to say....you are a liar. So...its best to wait until you have
    some samples to show.
     
    Gene Palmiter, Oct 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Owen Coors

    Skip M Guest

    Why on earth would you choose a Sigma over any of the other cameras
    available in their price range with better construction and higher
    resolution. Their color sensor has been shown to be unable to give better
    results than the competitors, even though, in theory they should, and their
    true resolution is half or less of the others in their price class.
    IF you are truly of this mind, and not merely trolling for effect, you
    should do more research. But I doubt that you will...
     
    Skip M, Oct 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Owen Coors

    Seymore Guest

    Nope! No reason at this time!
     
    Seymore, Oct 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    Well, the x530 samples are out (as of a couple hrs ago), but I can't
    really say that I'm completely impressed. Actually, I was elated at
    first viewing... then depression set in quite rapidly, followed by
    self doubt, which fueled a renewed vigor within to overcome my bad
    feelings with a more open-mindedness about the questionable image
    abberations. Now, I'm content to wait and watch and see... (like I
    have a choice in the matter... the camera's not available yet).
    Anyways, on to better things...
    Yes, I'm aware of the sparring (friendly, informative and downright
    foolish at times) that has transpired about the technologies
    (Foveon/CCD/CMOS). Myself, I could really care less about the
    infighting... I just want to find the best little compact digital to
    use for my enthusiast/amateur use. As far as my
    experience/qualifications... well, I only began shooting 35mm film six
    years ago (never owned a 35mm p&s, except for a Yashica GSN with a
    45mm f1.7 lens). I started with an Argus c-3 and its 50mm f3.5 Cintar
    lens. When I wanted more focal length, I began searching the internet
    and found a Soligor 135mm f4.5 for the c-3s mount at Broadway Camera
    in New York City and purchased it. This boxy rangefinder kept me happy
    and amused until it just stopped working within a year of using it.
    Next, I found an Argus c44 at a camera show for $35 and purchased it,
    but it never gave me one good image. One day, my wife showed me an ad
    in a weekly advertising paper that they would leave on the lawn. A man
    had listed an Olympus Pen-F, half frame slr, with 38mm f1.8 Zuiko lens
    and a 135mm f3.5 t-mount lens and the adapter, camera case etc. "Like
    new... $75". Well, we were the first to call and we got the whole kit
    of equipment which, by the way, the old gentleman (from New York) said
    that the camera had very minimal use and had been cared for lovingly
    (it was absolutely mint). Now I really enjoyed that little camera...
    so much in fact that I decided to make/mill a mount for the camera so
    that it could use a Russian 85mm f2 rangefinder lens (Kiev/Contax).
    Normally, there would be no way possible to use a rangefinder lens
    with an slr because of the great variation of backfocus between the
    two camera types, but it just so happened that the Olympus Pen-F uses
    a very small mirror that is mounted sideways, because of the cameras
    no-prism design (mirrors are used to make the cameras top flat), so
    because of this the back focus for the proprietary "Pen F,Ft" series
    of lenses allowed me the leeway to design a mount for using this
    extrodinary (my opinion) lens on this camera with a perfect(!)
    infinity focus. This kept me quit content for sometime. I finally
    succomed to the "need to get a digital" state of mind 3-4 yrs ago. I
    purchased a Kodak DC50. The .38 of a megapixel resolution didn't
    satisfy for long so I purchased a used (eBay) Fuji DS300. I enjoyed
    this camera for the better part of a year, then moved onto various
    other models till now. I'm not sure if I'll be getting the Polaroid
    x530 or not... we'll have to see.

    kind regards,
    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    Why would you doubt anything about me? I'm quite aware of the
    pros/cons for and against the Foveon technology. Let me say this
    plainly... don't even waste your valuable time "trolling me... for
    effect" (drawing me out). I'm just a dumb "dad with a camera" that
    wants to make good 4x6 and 5x7 prints for his wife and daughter to use
    in their scrapbooking/photo album ventures. There is absolutely
    nothing threatening about me... nor is there anything to gain by
    attacking me personally in any way here. I don't know enough about
    advanced photography to fill a thimble, actually. Maybe the x530 is
    not worth having... I don't know... but I can see no cheaper way of
    experiencing the Foveon technology. If it's no good... I'll know, if
    it's good though... well, I won't tell you because you probably
    wouldn't believe me anyway.

    warm regards,
    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 8, 2004
    #6
  7. This makes no sense at all. You'd give up the Pro70, which is higher
    resolution than the x530, and it doesn't matter that for $300 you could buy
    a very good 4 megapixel camera!

    Many of the problems with the Sigma SLRs are not sensor related, though many
    of them are, especially the noise and ISO issues. There is no reason to
    expect that the x530 will be any better in these areas, plus it's less than
    1/2 the resolution of the 3.4 megapixel SD10.
    Keep hoping Steve.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Oct 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Although carrying the Polaroid name, the camera is not manufactured by
    Polaroid. I would be wary to drop that kind of cash on a camera made by a
    company new to the game, regardless of it having a Foveon sensor. I wanted
    a good camera for my wife to use as a backup to my SD9 so I picked up a Fuji
    FinePix S7000 for $ 355.00. Can't beat that camera at that price anywhere.
    Sounds to me as though a camera like that will certainly meet your needs.
    You could wait awhile and see if the rumored SD7 becomes a reality. The
    price point will be lower than most, if not all, entry level DSLRs.
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, Oct 8, 2004
    #8
  9. (Owen Coors) wrote in
    Hi Owen,

    Digital cameras are fun. Get one!

    The Foveon thingies has their cons and pros.
    But they are no magical things that is better
    than the usual cameras; seems to be rather the
    contrary actually.

    I would not wait for this rumoured Foveon based
    Polaroid camera if I were you. There are probably
    much better cameras out now!


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 8, 2004
    #9
  10. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    Who said ANYTHING about giving up the Pro70? But since you asked...
    I'd like to have a lightweight, high quality, digital camera to take
    with me on a winter bicycle ride that will/would take me from Ohio,
    USA up to James Bay in Ontario, Canada. Last year, I took a Kodak
    DC290 and Sunpak 333 flash with sync cord on my 600 mile winter
    ride... from Toledo, Ohio to Marquette, Michigan. All worked out fine
    with the DC290 last year, but I need to pare down my "extranious
    equipment" weight for this winters planned longer/remote venture.
    Every ounce of equipment weight saved will be another ounce of
    life-sustaining food that I can carry with me. Also, last year was my
    first ever "far north" winter bike tour and this upcoming ride
    would/will find me using far more of my "carry on" food supply because
    of the remoteness of the region and much longer milage to travel.
    Couple these with more effort expended to accomplish the ride within a
    specific time frame and I'll be using even more food per day. Also,
    the 500-gram DC290 that I took last year is not very big on capturing
    quality image files (my opinion) as it is old, dated, VERY noisy
    technology that really was not even any good... even for its day. The
    Pro70, a wonderful tool (my opinion) is simply too heavy to take
    along. Yes, I know that the combined weight of my DC290/Sunpak
    333/sync cord last year exceeded this cameras weight, but thats the
    point... I thought (rightfully, as it turned out) that I needed the
    big flash to get a good shot of my Grandmother when I stopped by on my
    way through. Not only did I get a "nice" usable shot of HER, because
    of the flash... but a snowstorm caused me to seek shelter early one
    afternoon and so I rented a room at a motel. I discovered that
    evening, that I was within eight miles of my father... whom I had not
    seen for 36 years. He was listed in the local phone book, so I jotted
    down his address and showed up at his home the next day (could not
    call ahead as a courtesy, because he is deaf). He was home and he
    welcomed in and we had a glorious day together, before I tore myself
    away and continued up the road. Oh yes... the point! I got some VERY
    important images of my father because of having the Sunpak along.
    I'm aware of these issues and I accept them in the Sigma cameras. I
    do/didn't expect any better performance from the little Foveon sensor/
    Polaroid x530. Looking at those sample images that were posted last
    night (at 100%... monitor viewing) nearly caused me to walk away from
    the x530, but that was just reactionary. When I considered all of the
    possibilities, I realized that these images were probably shot in that
    cameras jpeg mode (exif data showed "compression level...6"), I don't
    know... if these images are from a final "production sample", or what
    they would "look like" when shot in raw (either printed or viewing)
    and then... I looked at them at "full screen preview" and I was QUITE
    impressed (except for the obvious artifacts). It remains to be seen if
    I will still want the x530, after all of the smoke has cleared.
    I will!

    best regards,
    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 8, 2004
    #10
  11. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    Peter, I'm aware of this and I've thought this over before. It
    did/does concern me that "world liscencing" is an unknown (to me), but
    I don't really know if this is grounds for dismissing the x530 (maybe
    it should be...). My concerns are about how they will "back" their
    product, if/when there is a problem.
    $355 for an S7000!... was this new? If so... what a deal! I've looked
    at some OUTSTANDING looking S7000 images around the net. My wifes e550
    has the 4th generation sensor, but I do still maintain that it not
    even close to being in the same league as the S7000. Myself, I'd
    rather have one S7000 than a whole box full of e550's... and I like
    the e550 VERY much!
    Actually, I'd have purchased another e550 or f810 for my own use...
    but since we already have a 4th generation sensor camera, why buy
    another when this is an opportunity to see if there is even a better
    "compact" digi-cam to be found (preferably for cheap... relatively...
    like the x530).
    This is the first that I've heard of the SD7... is this to be a
    "dummied down" version of the SD9/10... like the SA7 FILM slr is to
    the SA9?... that will compete with the Nikon D70, Canon 300 Rebel,
    Olympus 300, Pentax istDS, etc. dslr's?
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me, Peter.

    regards,
    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 9, 2004
    #11
  12. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    I have a few already, Roland... but I'm always striving for
    "improvement".
    Thank you for sharing this thought! I too, may feel the same way after
    trying out the Foveon sensor technology, but in my opinion, I'll never
    "really know" unless I jump in somewhere and try it (the Polaroid may
    not be the "best" way to experience Foveon... to be certain, but it's
    a camera that would meet my present needs as a compact... if in fact
    it can deliver the goods). I've looked at the long exposure SD9/10
    images, showing yellow noise everywhere... and I've seen the yellowed
    skin tones also. I've also looked at some amazing portaits, macros,
    landscapes, still-lifes,longish exposures, etc... enough in fact that
    I'm "willing" for the experience, myself.
    This may prove to be 100% accurate... but I'm hoping not! Thank you
    for sharing these concerns of yours, Roland.

    regards,
    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 9, 2004
    #12
  13. The S7000 I bought for $ 355.00 was new. I bought it at Best Buy. The
    camera was being replaced by the S20, there were no more to be ordered and I
    got one of the last two in the store.

    As for the rumored SD7, I doubt the features would be any less than the
    SD9 - perhaps better. It must have a built-in flash if it the entry level
    DSLR consumer is it's target and I suspect the sensor will have the
    microlenses that the SD10 has but the SD9 lacks. This allows for higher ISO
    performance which is the achillees heel of the SD9. That was an issue for
    me before buying my SD9 until I realized that I could not remember ever
    using any film faster than ISO 100 in my Elan. I will eventually pick up an
    SD10 or it's replacement which Sigma claims is in Development. Perhaps
    we'll see that around Christmas time. Once it does happen, you'll see the
    prices of the SD10 drop. In fact, Sigma sells the SD10 direct in packages
    in their online mall. One $ 1599.00 package includes a bag, ring flash, and
    lens that retail for over $ 800.00 alone. I may be wrong, but this
    technically puts tha camera body at $ 800.00 which tells me a replacement is
    on the way.
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, Oct 9, 2004
    #13
  14. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    Owen Coors, Oct 9, 2004
    #14
  15. (Owen Coors) wrote in
    Hmmm ... they look really bad. Grainy and strange colors.

    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 9, 2004
    #15
  16. What else would you expect from something bearing the Polaroid name and
    using Foveon technology?
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Oct 9, 2004
    #16
  17. Owen Coors

    Yakov Chiu Guest

    This is a good deal on the S7000. But two things put me off from it.
    First, the lack of an AF assist lamp, and second, the AA batteries. The
    latter I could live with (though I find AA batteries a pain), but an AF
    assist lamp is such a good feature, that the lack of it automatically
    eliminates a camera from consideration. Still the S7000 is magnitudes
    better than the SD9, and if the SD7 is as bad as the SD9 then you've
    made a good choice in the S7000.
     
    Yakov Chiu, Oct 10, 2004
    #17
  18. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    Owen Coors, Oct 10, 2004
    #18
  19. Owen Coors

    Owen Coors Guest

    My reaction was similar, yet much worse... as I was hoping for "bliss"
    or something. After looking these over critically, now (MANY times)...
    I'm beginning to like them... more than just a little. A fellow, over
    on the dpreview site, noted that the first image (tour boat) was shot
    with the cameras "native" resolution setting. This image is the
    strongest or best of the three images in my opinion. It just jumps out
    at me... while I view it. The third image (the wet stones & shell)
    does also, when viewing it at "full screen preview" size. Even the
    second image (the vegtable cart?) does it for me when viewed at "full
    screen preview". These last two images, as I understand it, were shot
    at the 4.5mp setting.
    I thought that I'd wait for some more/better samples to show up before
    printing any, but I'm now (impatiently and curiously) of a mind to go
    to "wal-mart" today and print all three of these at 5x7... to see what
    I can see.

    Owen
     
    Owen Coors, Oct 10, 2004
    #19
  20. (Owen Coors) wrote in
    Those pictures are much worse than from any current
    camera. They look horrible.

    I can only conclude that you have a strange taste
    or that you _really_, _really_, _really_ want them
    to look good.

    Sorry Ownens, but thats what I think.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 10, 2004
    #20
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