Photoshop CS - great upgrade for digital photographers

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bill Hilton, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. Bill Hilton

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Tony Spadaro, Nov 26, 2003
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  2. Bill Hilton

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Yes I can see what has been going on, and while I think they have a valid
    point, and don't like activation either, I think it's incredably stupid to
    think a few pissed off cranks are in any way shape manner or form a true
    sampling of Photoshop users. They are closer to the idiot who posts
    obscenities on this forum from a pile of different email addresses -- noisy,
    but numerically insignificant.
    Since I'm the only person I know in this town who has a LEGAL copy of
    Photoshop (other than a few people who use it professionally in a couple
    graphics and print shops) and since I know at least 20 people who have
    ILLEGAL copies, I have to admit that some form of control is necessary.
    This particular form strikes me as a lot better thant the "dongle' of
    some time back. It ain't perfect but I'll accept it -- erven though that
    means I won't be able to have CS on all 3 of my computers.

    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
    Well, you see thing and you don't believe it then what else you want
    to see? If you don't believe the pool then at least you can see what
    has been going on around the Photoshop newsgroups, can't you?

    Usually there would be lot of talks about the newer features of newer
    version months before the release... now, almost no talk about the newer
    feature and most about the activation. I have dropped one Photoshop
    newsgroup (links to Adobe site I guess) because it had nothing but few
    hundreds of messages about activation daily, and I saw about 2 users
    (one was Carol) were so happy with the activation, they just can't stop
    expressing their happiness (lot of messages from these 2 users and the

    I guess you can speak for your employer now, or at least for your
    bosses (the ones who pay you) <g>
    Tony Spadaro, Nov 26, 2003
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  3. Bill Hilton

    Rick Guest

    Rick, Nov 26, 2003
  4. Bill Hilton

    Rick Guest

    If you have any references to "real" polls I'd love to see them.
    Until then, the poll I referenced is _not_ nonsense. It was
    posted by a long-time member of the graphics forum,
    and the responses are in line with what members of that forum
    had to say:
    It also agrees with most of the responses in this and other
    Usenet threads, comments from my own friends and business
    associates who use PS professionally, etc.

    Rick, Nov 26, 2003
  5. Bill Hilton

    Rick Guest

    I've been working in the IT field since 1978, and I've never
    seen anyone pull off the same thing (at least not to the same
    degree) as MS.

    Rick, Nov 26, 2003
  6. Bill Hilton

    Eric Gill Guest

    What form of "control" are you talking about? Activation was cracked within
    24 hours of release, AFAICT, and the crack very widely distributed.
    And the present. Usually only used on very expensive and high-end pieces,
    the truth is cracks are just as easy to develop for dongle-protected
    software. They are most effective for the high-end market because it's
    easier to convince corporations to tolerate them.
    There's always the crack - after all, you *have* paid for it, and will only
    be using it on one machine at a time, yes?
    Eric Gill, Nov 26, 2003
  7. Did I say I don't believe that people are unhappy about activation? No, I
    didn't say that. I believe you that people are unhappy about activation. In
    fact, I'm unhappy about it myself, because Photoshop's activation is
    incompatible with my primary backup system, full disk clones using Ghost. I
    back up my ThinkPad a couple of times a week by cloning the hard drive to a
    second drive (I have a few drives that I rotate through for this). Once in a
    while, I swap the backup drive into the main bay and boot from it, making
    that my new system drive. This way I'm sure that I've got a solid backup.

    However, Photoshop CS doesn't run when I boot from my backup drive, because
    Ghost doesn't copy the special SafeCast sector. (Yes, Adobe employees have
    to live with activation too.) Windows XP's version of activation has no
    problem with my Ghost backups--it doesn't write to any reserved sectors, but
    uses an ordinary disk file to store its configuration data.

    So I fully sympathize with anyone who has problems with activation. That
    said, I'll repeat my point from my previous message: Rick stated as a fact
    that two-thirds of Adobe's customers say they will refuse to upgrade to CS
    because of activation. However, the online self-selecting survey he based
    that claim on is inherently flawed, and no one with any background in
    statistics would give the survey's results any credence.

    If you can convince Photoshop management that activation is costing them
    money instead of making them money, they'll drop it. But faulty
    self-selecting surveys won't convince them. I doubt if newsgroup discussions
    will either, for the same reason--people who have a problem are much more
    likely to post than people who don't.

    -Mike (definitely not speaking for Adobe!)
    Michael Geary, Nov 26, 2003
  8. Bill Hilton

    Mxsmanic Guest

    In microcomputer land, I've never seen it done any other way.
    Mxsmanic, Nov 26, 2003
  9. Bill Hilton

    Don Coon Guest

    Talk is cheap. It is very unlikely that 2/3rds of users will not upgrade or
    switch to other software. And I'd be willing to bet a pile of money on
    that if anyone can identify reliable statistics to determine the outcome.
    This of course excludes individulas using pirated software since they will
    have no negative impact on Adobe's cash flow if they don't upgrade ; )
    Don Coon, Nov 26, 2003
  10. Bill Hilton

    Rick Guest

    Cracks already exist, so it won't be pirates who don't upgrade.
    As is always the case with copy protection, the people who will
    be limited and/or inconvenienced by activation are legitimate

    Rick, Nov 26, 2003
  11. Bill Hilton

    Paul J Gans Guest

    I agree with you, and I've been one of the complainers.
    And I'll be upgrading once my new system is flying.

    And I'll likely be changing hard drives (as I do with
    some regularity) and then I'll try the process of doing
    an official deactivation with a new activation on the
    new drive. If it is painless, well and good. If it is
    NOT painless...

    I think that it would be wise for us all to wait until
    we actually have activation-related problems. If we
    do, THEN we scream.

    ---- Paul J. Gans
    Paul J Gans, Nov 26, 2003
  12. Bill Hilton

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    But a lot of people who think nothing of copying software will not use it if
    they have to "crack" it. It's like everythign else, designed to keep the
    honest person honest - and it's always a slippery definition, but it is also
    true that if a person has to do a specifically illegal operation, they are
    much more likely to stay within the law.
    Heck, I had a friend who reduced customer pilfering from her store by
    about 80% merely by putting out a few little signs that said "Please do not

    home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
    The Improved Links Pages are at
    A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
    Tony Spadaro, Nov 26, 2003
  13. Bill Hilton

    Tony Spadaro Guest

    Tony Spadaro, Nov 26, 2003
  14. Bill Hilton

    Nick C Guest

    I had to go back to my Mac files but it was 6.0 that I had before I updated
    to 7.0. I'm now using 7.0 on my Mac's and PC. Anyhow, I may go back to 6.

    Nick C, Nov 26, 2003
  15. Bill Hilton

    Nick C Guest

    Costs of the same software vary. There is a different cost for general
    consumers, students, and schools. There is even a different cost between
    general consumer CD's and buying OEM CD's. Same programs but OEM CD's are a
    heck of a lot less. Yet MS and Adobe claim piracy is eating them up.

    Nick C, Nov 26, 2003
  16. Bill Hilton

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Piracy doesn't take money away from companies; it deprives them of
    potential revenue. There's a big difference between the two, but
    companies usually consider them one and the same. And the advantage to
    piracy losses is that, since they are always _potential_ and never
    actually measured, one can advance all sorts of extravagant figures and
    there is no way to prove them correct or incorrect. So Adobe or
    Microsoft could say that they "lose" (that is, they don't earn) ten
    billion dollars due to piracy, and there's really no way to prove this
    either way ... but it sure sounds impressive.

    There are probably substantial losses with Photoshop because it appeals
    so much to angry young males. It's hard to say how many of these little
    boys would actually pay for the software if that were the only way to
    obtain it, though. For the angry young males, cracking software is
    often part of the thrill, since they don't really know how to use the
    software anyway.
    Mxsmanic, Nov 26, 2003
  17. Bill Hilton

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Each time a software company comes out with that BS about piracy and
    loss figures, I have a great laugh. They like to make a big deal of
    piracy, by saying that they lose money for every program copied, but the
    reality is that only 10% or less of those who copy a program like
    Photoshop actually USE it, and NEED it, and would BUY it if they
    couldn't get a copy. If companies will make a good product, support it
    well, and evidence a sincere concern for the customer, they need not
    fear piracy. So far, I have dealt with only one software company who
    had that approach, and they had very little problem with piracy.
    Ron Hunter, Nov 26, 2003
  18. By preference, I use Corel Photo-Paint 8, but have also learned to use PS
    5.0 LE, because shops prefer it. I like Photo-Paint, both because it is more
    intuitive and it uses memory on large files much better than does PS.

    Paul Riemerman
    Paul Riemerman, Nov 26, 2003
  19. Bill Hilton

    Don Coon Guest

    How will they be "limited" or "inconvenienced"? If I can run two copies, I
    don't see any problems. Activization is simple. What substance am I
    Don Coon, Nov 26, 2003
  20. Bill Hilton

    Dag Guest

    Yes it does, or at least can under certain set ups. The activation
    code writes data to hardcoded sector of the disk where many people have
    things like bootloaders installed. PS won't check to see if there is
    any other data there but will overwrite it killing whatever software
    was there before. The second interesting question is what will happen
    if you have two different softpackages that need to be activated by
    writing to the same sector. I wonder if that's even possible.

    Dag, Nov 26, 2003
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