Photography allowed at concerts?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ben Thomas, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. Ben Thomas

    Mxsmanic Guest

    What choice did he have? He could either stop taking pictures or leave.
    Continuing to take pictures and refusing to leave would have been
    trespassing.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jan 15, 2005
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  2. Ben Thomas

    Mark² Guest

    He could "either stop taking pictures or leave."?
    But...
    He didn't choose one of those!

    He stopped taking pictures, AND he left too!
    What a boob!
    ***He missed the very show he paid to see!
    -And didn't even gather the **memory** of the artist he wanted to remember
    so badly that he brought a camera!!
    ....Seems to me he lost, big-time, all because he tried to make some
    "pointless point" to a dumb security guard.
    Shrewd...
     
    Mark², Jan 15, 2005
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  3. Which no doubt is why some performers are so keen to limit copying by
    third parties.
    Which, of course, doesn't mean the average security guard knows that,
    or cares.
     
    Eric Schreiber, Jan 15, 2005
  4. Ben Thomas

    Mxsmanic Guest

    If he leaves, he can't take pictures, can he?
    I don't see anything booby about it.
    Perhaps taking pictures was more important than seeing the show.
    Maybe she wasn't the artist he wanted to see most.
    As I've said, he had no choice. He could not stay _and_ take pictures,
    so if the only interest of the concert for him existed insofar as he
    could photograph it, there was no reason to remain.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jan 15, 2005
  5. Ben Thomas

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Probably, although recordings made from a seat in the audience may be of
    poor quality.
    He'll know that after he's prosecuted and convicted.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jan 15, 2005
  6. Ben Thomas

    Mark² Guest

    You've got an "answer" for everything, but I still think he was acting quite
    the boob.
    :)
     
    Mark², Jan 15, 2005
  7. That hasn't stopped a long tradition of bootlegs. But that's neither
    here or there.
    Replace 'after' with 'if'. Security in the form of bouncers, for
    example, forcibly remove people from private property fairly often, and
    it's exceeding rare that they are prosecuted for it.
     
    Eric Schreiber, Jan 15, 2005
  8. Ben Thomas

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Most people won't act to defend their rights. That's why they gradually
    tend to lose them.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jan 15, 2005
  9. Their rights depend upon the situation. From security-expert.org, the
    following two quotes are pertinent...

    In escorting a patron out, blocking movements by the security officers
    using their body, and slight touching or holding to guide or direct the
    person are permitted, but no greater force should be used except in
    self-defense, or in protecting some other person against injury or
    assault.

    Only "reasonable force" sufficient to hold an attacker, or overcome an
    attacker's use of force" is legally authorized in most jurisdictions.
    Such force should not be greater than the force being used by the
    person being subdued or ejected. The key word is "reasonable," as in
    "reasonable to a judge or jury."


    Philip Poser, err, Procter, stated "If he had touched me, I would have
    called 911 on the spot." The security guard probably would have
    welcomed a police presence (assuming he wasn't an off-duty cop
    himself), and any cop almost certainly would have responded to the
    situation by helping remove the very bold and brave Peter from the
    venue.
     
    Eric Schreiber, Jan 15, 2005
  10. Ben Thomas

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Maybe, but I wouldn't be so sure. Many security guards are very poorly
    trained and routinely use excessive force, which can land them in jail
    if someone files a complaint. Touching or guiding someone is one thing;
    grabbing them and dragging them out is another. And any threat of
    injury isn't allowed, period. Security guards must be especially
    careful about these things because they cannot plead ignorance of the
    law if they use excessive force--they are supposed to know.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jan 15, 2005
  11. No argument there. Still, Philips little rant remains nothing more than
    childish posturing, IMO.
     
    Eric Schreiber, Jan 15, 2005
  12. Ben Thomas

    ZONED! Guest

    Try to sell an image in your mind ;o)
     
    ZONED!, Jan 16, 2005
  13. Ben Thomas

    Tom Ellliott Guest

    I read all the postings before writing the following:

    1: Common courtsey. Ask permission first. Would be surprized at the
    willingness of the concert promoters, and the concert subjects to go ahead
    and give you permission to take concert photos. You will be on the short end
    of the terms and conditions and how you can use the photos. Negotiation
    means (to me anyway) both sides win. The concert people get photos they can
    use and you get stock shots (maybe even a great historical photo) to take to
    the "bank".

    2: Copyrights, trademarks, etc.

    3: Sometimes an offter to pay them (yes pay them) for permission to shoot
    concert shots. I know that for a fact. I wanted to shoot on the set of the
    shooting of "Birdman of Alcatraz", staring Burt Lancaster. Since I did not
    have the funds at the time but if I did, I could pay for a union still
    photographer to be on stand by while I actually shot stills that day. Since
    I did not have the funds to even have it under a consideration, I did not
    find out what other terms and conditins that there would have been attached
    to the photos.

    4: In Australia - I really do not know what the local laws are and what are
    the "rights" of a photographer are. However there is the reality is that
    even if what everyone said in the following posts was true .... you really
    risk physical harm to body, damage to equipment and so on. Ron Galella is an
    agressive free lancer and he took to wearing a protective helmet when
    covering some celibrities. You can be "right" and "dead right" at the same
    time at the worst, at best spend a lot of money to be "right" and hope that
    the earnings from the disputed photos will pay for ALL "expenses" and then
    when the dust settles make you some money too.

    So I guess the reall question is just how much is it worth to "break the
    law" real or imagined.

    All the best,
    Yours truly,
    Tom Elliott
    http://www.tom-elliott-photography.com

    PS: In the case of http://www.tom-elliott-photography.com/special.htm I was
    part of the press, in a public place (some cases on the sidewalk), and
    hopefully was not a jerk. All of the subjects knew I was taking their photo
    and were amazed that I could photograph under (at the time) impossible
    conditions. I also tried in a lot of cases to send the subjects a print for
    them to use however they wanted, for an unlimited amount of time. I did not
    release my copyright on the images. IMHO a minor example of a win-win
    situation.
    Have fun. Make pictures.
     
    Tom Ellliott, Jan 16, 2005
  14. Dear mjmorgan(lowest common denominator here)...

    I admit I made no points, pointless or otherwise, I have no doubt the
    security guard forgot me the moment he turned around. I did not do it
    to make a point. I chose my course. As a mere concert goer, I have no
    power (and few rights), I made the only statement I could, and to the
    only audience that mattered. Me.

    Had I refused and continued to take pictures, they might have forcibly
    escorted me from the audience. Now THAT would have accomplished allot!
    Alternately, I could have stayed silently in my seat and stewed for
    the rest of the show.

    If you can think of something better I could do the next time, tell me
    what it is, don't just criticize.

    mxsmainiac had it right. I wasn't there to see Alanis Morissette, I
    had come for Tori Amos. As far as I was concerned, Alanis was a
    freebee, and quite expendible. Before you critiosize HIM for have all
    the answers, be aware that he just might be right.

    Besides, I beat the cush of cars from the lot, so I had the last
    laugh.
     
    Philip Procter, Jan 16, 2005
  15. Ben Thomas

    Mark² Guest

    OK.
    I'll buy that.
    If there had been some indication that you didn't care about Alanis to begin
    with,
    then my resonse would have been different. As you stated it, it seemed you
    were trying to make a point with the guard.
    I see that you understand the futility that would have been, so my opinion
    is now changed by your explanation.
     
    Mark², Jan 16, 2005
  16. Ben Thomas

    Mark² Guest

    -And thanks for explaining this.
    :)
    -Mark
     
    Mark², Jan 16, 2005
  17. Ben Thomas

    Mxsmanic Guest

    And Tori Amos is way more photogenic, too.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jan 16, 2005
  18. Ben Thomas

    Marvin Guest

    When somebody asks me not to take his picture, I don't take his picture. The performer asked that no pictures be taken.
     
    Marvin, Jan 16, 2005
  19. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Guest

    I don't think it OK to assume that. I would be more inclined to believe that the
    promoter or record company set that rule, to maximise sales of brochures. I
    would buy a brochure (instead of taking my own photos) if it contained photos of
    the night I was there so I can look back in 20 years and see pictures of the
    same arena and stage.

    I'm convinced the rule only exists to stop people from making money from selling
    the photos.

    --
    --
    Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

    My Digital World:
    Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
    Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
    Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
    Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

    Disclaimer:
    Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
    relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
    given nor endorsed by it.
     
    Ben Thomas, Jan 16, 2005
  20. Ben Thomas

    Ben Thomas Guest

    I rang the company selling the tickets and asked them if it was OK to take
    photos inside, and how it was enforced.

    They said I would not be searched on entry, but would be asked to stop taking
    photos or leave if I was seen taking photos.

    I am prepared to risk damage to my camera from overzealous/big handed security
    guards as it is being replaced by a Pentax *ist DS DSLR about 2 weeks before the
    concert anyway. Although I doubt those type of security guards will be employed
    by an oldie like Knofler.

    I will be discreet when taking the photos (not use the LCD screen). If I get
    asked to stop taking photos I will comply. I really only want to take a couple
    of photos as a memento. 99% of my time will be spent enjoying the wonders of
    Mark Knofler's guitar playing.


    --
    --
    Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

    My Digital World:
    Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
    Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
    Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
    Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

    Disclaimer:
    Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
    relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
    given nor endorsed by it.
     
    Ben Thomas, Jan 16, 2005
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