pc starts at 2nd attempt (again!)

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by tomm, May 5, 2009.

  1. tomm

    tomm Guest

    Sorry for repeating this post which some of you may remember..
    but I have tacked some important info onto the end of it ..........
    ...........
    I have just replaced my motherboard ( a straight swap for the same model ) .
    Its an asrock k758x.
    Seems fine but there is one problem.
    I turn it on & on the first attempt the fans start up but nothing else. No
    beeps , no signal to the monitor ..nothing.
    So I turn it off again. On the 2nd attempt it boots up fine , no problems
    at all.
    And thats the way it goes every time. The 1st attempt always fails. The 2nd
    attempt always boots up ok.
    I know I can always turn it on at the 2nd attempt but why do I have to go
    through the same routine of the first attempt failing?

    ..................... ok that was my post from last time but I am as sure
    as I can be that it is connected to the cpu.
    I got fed up with the problem so I assumed it was the new motherboard and
    put my old one back in.
    The problem is still there so the problem must be the cpu. It is the only
    thing that is different from me having the problem & not having the problem.
    I also put my old cpu back in for a moment to double check & this confirmed
    the problem only ever happens with my xp2200 cpu. My bios detects the right
    cpu & speed so are there any suggestions why this happens ?
     
    tomm, May 5, 2009
    #1
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  2. tomm

    tomm Guest

    I am already using the latest version.. Plus I cant use my original cpu as
    it caused random rebooting .
    The very reason I had to swap my mb (needlessly as it turned out) and my
    cpu
     
    tomm, May 5, 2009
    #2
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  3. tomm

    Buffalo Guest

    I seem to remember your original post.
    Did you ever try a different power supply? I think you did, and if so, just
    disregard.
    The reason behind that was that it takes more power to start spinning up the
    HDD than it does to do a warm reboot while the HDD is still spinning.
    Buffalo
    PS: If you ever get it figured out, PLEASE post back! :)
     
    Buffalo, May 5, 2009
    #3
  4. tomm

    chuckcar Guest

    As a matter of fact he *did* try a different power supply, but never
    mentioned the power rating of either, making the mention meaningless of
    course.

    Message-ID: <00381447$0$21901$>

    Is the original post. Curiously with the same exact subject.
     
    chuckcar, May 6, 2009
    #4
  5. tomm

    westom Guest

    Someone who actually did this stuff suggested the only action that
    provides definitive answers. Do you ignore the meter because you fear
    something that requires a 12 year old skillset, or just like always
    being confused? What you have done is called shotgunning - fixing
    things using only wild speculation. Even a auto mechanic that did
    that would be quickly unemployed. Only fools shotgun.

    A defective power supply can still boot a computer (which you may
    have had). A new and good power supply can sometimes fail in an
    otherwise perfectly good computer. More problems that the meter will
    indentify in minutes so that you never see this (and some other)
    problems months from now. So instead you swapped power supplies and
    got more useless information.

    Every answer will be nothing more than wild speculation if you do
    not get and use the meter. Why do you fear having a useful answer in
    only 30 seconds? How many parts have you wasting time and money on
    and accomplish nothing? At what point do you listen to the only one
    here who even designed these things?

    You were provided the only answer that works. You ignored it: First,
    measure DC voltage on purple, green, and gray wire (from power supply
    to motherboard) by pressing probe inside the nylon connector. Read
    these numbers both before and when power switch is pressed. Then post
    those numbers here to learn what exists, why you did it, and what is
    or is not defective. IOW get a definitive answer before replacing or
    disconnecting anything. A 14 year old could have done this four
    times while you were still trying to replace a motherboard or power
    supply.

    Also Measure any one of red, orange, and yellow wires when system is
    powered up and accessing (multitasking to) all peripherals
    simultaneously. IOW play complex graphics (a movie) while downloading
    from the internet, while playing sounds loudly, while searching hard
    drive, etc. Now those red, orange, and yellow wire voltages are
    reporting what you have - definitively. You have no answer because
    you shotgunned.
     
    westom, May 6, 2009
    #5
  6. tomm

    tomm Guest

    yes.. tried 2 different power supplies , 2 different motherboards . Stripped
    the MB down to the bare componants needed to boot up. The problem is only
    there with one of the processors (the slower one) .
    As for the PS needing more power to boot the 1st time , I can turn it off
    and on 10 times and the pc will only boot on
    attempts 2, 4 , 6 , 8 & 10 without fail. Also the time between attempts
    makes no difference. The time between attempts
    1 & 2 can be 10 seconds or 10 hours.
    The pc runs fine apart from this and I am thinking I am just going to have
    to put up with it.
     
    tomm, May 6, 2009
    #6
  7. tomm

    tomm Guest

    They were both 300w. Both tried with just the cpu & memory connected.
    no, its not the memory either. both sticks tried alone , together and in
    different slots.
     
    tomm, May 6, 2009
    #7
  8. tomm

    Evan Platt Guest

    Feel free to ignore chucktard. He's useless. You've gotten other good
    advice - chucktards' advice isn't.
     
    Evan Platt, May 6, 2009
    #8
  9. tomm

    tomm Guest

    just out of interest... say YOU had a faulty PC... You tested the power
    supply and in your opinion it was ok.
    Then how else would you pinpoint the problem? Narrow it down to maybe the
    MB & Processor by elimination?
    Then swap the processor and everything works ok . So thats it.. you have
    solved it . It was a faulty processor.
    Nothing wrong with that process but you call it "scattergunning" and
    mock someone who finds the fault that way.

    Havent I eliminated the power supply ? Tried 2 different ones and the
    problem is still there .
    Swap the CPU and the problem is solved. 99% of the people on here would try
    the elimination process to pinpoint a faulty componant and be
    happy to do it that way. By eliminating and combining different parts I am
    as certain as I can be it is linked to the cpu.

    I am not even sure the cpu is faulty .. to boot up after 5 attempts ? yes
    maybe faulty.
    But to ONLY boot on even number attempts?
     
    tomm, May 6, 2009
    #9
  10. tomm

    lugnut Guest

    Your problem sounds like one I crossed a few years back.
    Mine was an Abit MB IIRC but, the problem was with the boot
    time for the hard drive. I do not recall exactly how the
    problem was curred but, it involved adding 2 seconds to the
    time allowed for the hard drive to spin up. This more or
    less paused the oot process of the MB allowing the hard
    drive to be ready. Otherwise, it would just hang as if there
    was no drive installed. Pushing the reset button would
    always start it. Do a google search for hard drive boot
    delat and you will probably find quite a few things on it
    including a little utility to pause the boot long enough for
    the HD to spin up. Another problem you may have is a power
    supply that is weak or overloaded resulting in low hd
    voltage at boot. If adding the delay utility does the job
    and the problem developed over time, I would bea little
    suspicious of the PS unit. None of the above is guaranteed
    to fix your problem but the utility is free. The info is
    worth exactly what you paid for it unless it works in which
    case luck was with you.

    Lugnut
     
    lugnut, May 6, 2009
    #10
  11. tomm

    chuckcar Guest

    Only 300 watts? I guess they were both working fine, but I believe 450 or
    so would be the figure given as adequate.

    Besides, you were given the suggestion - more than once if I recall correctly -
    to remove all but one stick of RAM, everything from USB/Firewire/PCMCIA, replace
    the video card with a low power (straight simple VGA card if available) or
    better yet use onboard. Everything else other than the keyboard and mouse should
    be removed too.

    The point is to show that the computer *can* boot if it has low enough power
    consumption. If it does, then the power supply isn't producing enough power for
    the hardware that was there. This is a completely different thing than the power
    supply having a problem. If the computer *doesn't* boot, then it's down to what
    you have left - a stripped down list of possibilities. That's *why* that works.
     
    chuckcar, May 6, 2009
    #11
  12. tomm

    Buffalo Guest

    Now that is interesting about every other time even though the time off is
    only a few seconds.
    Is your cpu recognized by the BIOS properly during the times when it doesn't
    boot, or doesn't it even get that far.
    I had a AMD mobile 2400 (Barton) that sometimes would only be recognized as
    a 2100 and only one/sixth of the L2 cache would be recognized.
    One other thing I thought of was if that mb had a provision where it would
    stop the booting process if it detected that the cpu fan wasn't operating
    fast enough. If you have a spare cpu fan, try that, but don't bother buying
    one just to try it out.
    Best of luck.
    Buffalo
    PS: Another great free and very helpful site is VirutalDr.com.
    Very knowledgeable and helpful folks there.
     
    Buffalo, May 6, 2009
    #12
  13. tomm

    westom Guest

    Maybe 99% of the people would do that. And 1% who actually know how
    things work would not. Is this a popularity contest or a technical
    problem?

    You swapped power supplies. That means you learned nothing. But
    again, the concept:
    Your supply is 'unknown'. Swapping a supply still leaves you with an
    'unknown' for so many reasons including - A defective power supply
    can still boot a computer (which you may have had). >>>A new and good
    power supply can sometimes fail in an otherwise perfectly good
    computer.<<< More problems that the meter will indentify in minutes
    so that you never see this (and some other) problems months from
    now. So instead you swapped power supplies and got more useless
    information.

    With nothing on the list of 'definitively good' or 'definitively
    bad', then nothing was accomplished.

    You have help that knows this stuff far in excess of what you will
    ever know. That help can do nothing for you because 1) you shotgun
    and 2) provide not even one single post of useful facts. Provided is
    how to have facts. But instead you continue to have the same problem
    only because you shotgun.

    This is the third time for that above paragraph:
    and still you don't get it. Which parts do you know are good
    without any doubt? List them? Shotgunning (your diagnostic methods)
    is why you continue to have problems. From my very first post;
    obvious that you have eliminated nothing because 1) you are
    speculating wildly (not 'following the evidence') and 2) you are
    shotgunning.

    70% also knew that Saddam had WMDs. But the minority who first
    viewed facts before knowing saw the lie. Do you believe the majority
    - or those who know only after learning facts? Why do you think every
    military academy graduates everyone with engineering training? Becaue
    they need people who know how to solve problems. Get the meter and get
    numbers now. Otherwise keep buying more parts until something only
    appears to work - again.
     
    westom, May 6, 2009
    #13
  14. tomm

    tomm Guest

    thanks for the replies everyone..
    On the times it doesnt boot up , only the cpu and case fans start. It
    doesnt get as far as the bios .
     
    tomm, May 6, 2009
    #14
  15. tomm

    tomm Guest

    thanks for the above but , I can do a 1st attempt and fail.
    Do a 2nd attempt and succeed. Then turn off & do a 3rd attempt and fail.
    Then I can leave it till the next day and it will boot first time because
    it is a boot attempt on an even number (the 4th in 2 days).
    Hope this makes sense... on this second day it will boot first time , but
    only because it failed on the previous days last attempt.. boot up / fail
    / boot up / fail boot up / fail ... the time between the attempts makes no
    difference
     
    tomm, May 6, 2009
    #15
  16. tomm

    Buffalo Guest

    Finally, a reasonable answer. :)
     
    Buffalo, May 7, 2009
    #16
  17. tomm

    Buffalo Guest

    Damn, if you would have said that earlier (in your post), I don't think
    anyone would have suspected the PSU.
    I am talking about leaving it off overnight and it booting the first time
    because it was 'even' numbered.
    Since this has been going on for quite awhile, perhaps you can tell me what
    your cpu is, as I don't remember.
    Best of luck,
    Buffalo
    PS: Older cpu's can be had pretty cheap on Ebay.
     
    Buffalo, May 7, 2009
    #17
  18. tomm

    Tony Guest

    Oh no! Not the same stupid advice twice, yes twice to the same question again!!
    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper manners

    Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

    Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

    Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond the
    realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
     
    Tony, May 7, 2009
    #18
  19. tomm

    Top Guest

    tomm pretended :
    Have you tried the memory in another computer? Forgive me if you've
    answered this before.

    Top
     
    Top, May 7, 2009
    #19
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