PC always active on Router display

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by Marge, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Marge

    Marge Guest

    Why do my PC's always display as active on the router even when turned
    off & can I fix this?

    I have 360 & PC sharing 1 cable through a 2 way hub, I have to switch
    the PC of at the mains plug to free up the hub for the 360 but when
    the 360 powers down normally it clears the hub for the PC.

    Not sure if thats clear enough :eek:)

    OK on my router socket 4 light is off (no connection)
    I swicth on 360 & connect to live, socket 4 light is on (active)
    I switch off 360, socket 4 light is off (no connection)
    I switch on my PC, socket 4 light is on (active)
    I switch my PC off normally, power down from windows, socket 4 light
    is still on (active) which makes it impossible to use 360 without
    turning off all power to PC at plug.

    I looked in setup to disable wake on LAN etc but it doesn't help, is
    there a way to totally switch off the card when the machine shuts down
    normally?

    I don't want to manually disconnect my connection everytime before I
    shut down & reconnect it manually everytime I start up.
     
    Marge, Dec 23, 2008
    #1
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  2. Marge

    PeeGee Guest

    Firstly, assuming an ethernet interface, WOL is a BIOS interrupt setting
    and (usually) does nothing to the interface. As you have found, the
    ethernet I/F uses the standby 5v to allow detection of the WOL packet -
    hence the active I/F - and turning off the power *into* the PSU is the
    only easy way to turn this off.

    Secondly, I don't understand the hub problem - ethernet hubs should not
    lock-out connections; the multiple access collision detection mechanism
    used by ethernet cards should (and is designed to) prevent that
    happening (and has worked reliably for decades).

    If everything else is standard ethernet, then I can only hazard a guess
    the the 360 doesn't implement the protocols correctly ;-) BTW, can you
    run two PCs via the hub without problems?

    --
    PeeGee

    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Dec 23, 2008
    #2
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  3. Marge

    Marge Guest

    It isn't strictly a hub, its a 2 into 1 splitter which just allows me
    to use 1 cable for both items so long as I only use one @ any given
    time, which suits me fine.

    Just find it strange that the 360 still has power in much the same way
    as a PC after normal shut down but the network is released.

    Today I switched the PC off (totally from mains) for a while, then
    applied power again but did not start the PC, router socket 4 not lit,
    turned on 360, connection fine ?

    Its only once the PC has been used that it does not release the socket
    on the router without having all power removed briefly.

    I'm also going to try and disable network before shutting down to see
    if it as any effect, I'm guessing not but I have to know :eek:)
     
    Marge, Dec 23, 2008
    #3
  4. Marge

    Marge Guest



    The splitter is Exctremely basic no switching, think of it as simply 3
    cables together, 2 into 1 hence you can only use one peice of hardware
    at any given time.


    Don't know if the WOL really does have anything to do with it, just
    seems most obvious to me?
    This PC has a NIC card but no info that I'm aware of, I could try the
    360 forums to see if anyone else as a similar setup.

    Disabling network doesn't free the router socket, not sure if
    disabling network before shutting down would help, I wonder if its
    possible to start the PC without activating the NIC card, obviously
    its going to receive power but if it doesn't try to connect will it
    take over socket 4? (light it up)
     
    Marge, Dec 23, 2008
    #4
  5. Marge

    Marge Guest


    YES IT DOES :eek:(

    started PC with network still disabled but socket 4 lit up, network
    was definitely disabled, had to enable it to get web page etc.

    Seems this is a power issue which may not be possible to resolve, will
    check bios setup etc to see if there are any green issues to save
    power and only supply slots when needed? doubtful but hey.

    Anyone know of any cards that don't do this or that have options to
    stop it?
     
    Marge, Dec 23, 2008
    #5
  6. You must remember that ATX MBs do not "power off" when you shutdown
    windows. The MB is still active. If you do not want it to be active
    either switch off at the mains or pull the plug.

    Network splitters are from the age when such controls where not the
    norm.

    In the situation you have, I would suggest that a cheap Network switch
    would resolve the issue. Or if you only want to use one a time, only
    connect one at a time.

    Don C
     
    Donald Campbell, Dec 23, 2008
    #6
  7. Marge

    PeeGee Guest

    I suspect it may be difficult to find one. A fairly old card with a
    Macronix MX98715 may do the job (the one in my system doesn't light up a
    switch port until the computer is powered up), but there is no guarantee :-(

    The alternative may be to get a low cost 5 or 8 port switch which will
    resolve the problem, though will require a power supply, and allow both
    systems to run but may increase latency marginally (but not enough to
    affect an ADSL or cable link).

    --
    PeeGee

    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Dec 23, 2008
    #7
  8. Marge

    Marge Guest

    The light doesn't bother me ? its the fact than when the PC rj45 is
    active(light on) I can't connect the 360, pretending the light isn't
    on isn't an option. once the PC has been used even when I shut down it
    keeps the socket active unless I totally remove all power from the PC,
    ie switch off at the mains plug.
     
    Marge, Jan 5, 2009
    #8
  9. Marge

    Marge Guest

    THANKS FOLKS,

    looks like I'll have to fork out for a router with more wire sockets,
    anyone have any good suggestions from experience?
     
    Marge, Jan 5, 2009
    #9
  10. Marge

    Marge Guest

    Yeh I know but I really don't want another power supply humming away
    to feed another switch, I would be better off with a larger router
    with more sockets but thats expensive so I believe.

    I wonder if NIC card & MB manufacturers will ever make network
    connections power consumption work more like the 360?
     
    Marge, Jan 9, 2009
    #10
  11. Marge

    PeeGee Guest

    You mean "go back to making" :) I presume the 360 does not have "wake
    on LAN", which is the reason why most NICs and M/Bs have power and the
    interface "semi-live".

    I don't know if it will actually do what you want, but Scan computers
    have a Dynamode NC1000TX-R card (Scan code LN21674, URL:
    http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Dynamode-10-100-PCI-Network-Card-Low-Profile-Realtek-Chipset)
    which, according to the Dynamode web-site, uses a "single 5v supply".
    There appear to be W and WB versions which have WOL. You could try
    contacting Scan to see if they can confirm it would do what you want.

    --
    PeeGee

    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Jan 9, 2009
    #11
  12. Marge

    Marge Guest


    Thanks PeeGee,
    I have mailed them to see, noticed they have a green hardware section,
    maybe going back to making cards without WOL as an option would be
    quite green?

    I like being green to my pocket :eek:) I don't like things that draw
    power when I'm not using them. Mainly I want my cheap simple setup to
    do one little thing which as you point out is old hat really.
    Obviously an older card would work but then I would loose speed :eek:(
     
    Marge, Jan 10, 2009
    #12
  13. Marge

    Marge Guest

    :eek:)
    supplies don't actually hum, just a figure of speech for wasting
    electricity.

    Socket on router is fine, if you have any physical indication on your
    router, ie light for each socket. switch on a PC which is connected to
    a particular socket & see it light up, then shut down windows & see if
    the light stays on. If it does, I'm guessing it will, then switch off
    the mains socket at the said PC which is already shut down & watch the
    light go off.

    If you wait a few seconds & switch the mains plug back on the light
    will not light up, meaning the socket is free. When you power your pc
    & start windows it will regain that socket, light on.
     
    Marge, Jan 11, 2009
    #13
  14. Marge

    PeeGee Guest

    In your case, with your "sharer", that may be true. On my system, as
    soon as the 5vSBY appears, the router light for that socket comes on -
    which is what I would expect.

    --
    PeeGee

    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Jan 11, 2009
    #14
  15. Marge

    Marge Guest

    No it won't but you haven't followed what I asked you to do to
    discover for yourself?
    Obviously I have know idea what I'm talking about, or you haven't
    followed what I asked you to do for you to understand what I am
    saying.
    No invalid tee, No IP conflict, No faulty switch,
    You don't seem to be reading what I am posting :eek:(
    Your not a public service IT expert are you?
     
    Marge, Jan 12, 2009
    #15
  16. Marge

    Marge Guest

    PeeGee? you are usually very helpful but from this post I'm wondering
    if you read the last post at all.

    Yes! on my system also, when the 5v from the PC appears at the router
    the light for that socket comes on too!! we are the same !!

    its when you shut down windows & the PC effectively is off that the
    socket is still lit up (active) and therefor not useable by any other
    hardware on that socket. Remember I have a splitter so 2 items of
    hardware can share the same socket though not at the same time. but
    the pc does not release the socket when shut down only when all power
    is removed & I believe this is the same for all modern pc's but you
    wouldn't be aware or affected by it unless you had a splitter.

    Its possible I guess that if you had 2 pc's on the splitter that it
    may work ok, the 5v form either overriding the other when needed but
    in the case of the 360 this is not so. I'll have to try that out to
    see.
     
    Marge, Jan 12, 2009
    #16
  17. Marge

    PeeGee Guest

    I believe I did :) However, I assumed you were fully aware of the
    difference between 5v and 5vSBY supplies (I do tend to assume, often
    wrongly, that people know things I consider *basic* information :-( ).
    That's not what I said :-( When you turn the supply on at the mains
    plug, the socket light stays off (5vSBY active, 5v not active), whereas
    the light comes on with my system. As I said in a previous post, I have
    a second system where the socket light *only* lights when the PC is
    powered up.

    The 5vSBY is available whenever the power is reaching the PSU and allows
    WOL, wake on keyboard, wake on USB, wake on timer etc. The 5v line only
    becomes active when the PC is actually powered up.
    --
    PeeGee

    "Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
    knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
    to be removed from a computer easily."
    Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)
     
    PeeGee, Jan 12, 2009
    #17
  18. Marge

    Clint Sharp Guest

    In message
    If 5 volts from the PC arrives at the router then you have a very broken
    PC.

    What PG said was that as soon as the 5 Volt standby rail from the power
    supply is there (when the power supply is plugged into the mains) the
    network card becomes active and the link light on the router (and
    network card) will light. A modern PC is far from 'off' when it's been
    shut down. To be honest, your best bet is to bin the dodgy splitter and
    spend a tenner on a small network switch to hang off the back of the
    router.
     
    Clint Sharp, Jan 12, 2009
    #18
  19. Marge

    Marge Guest

    OK sorry for upsetting you,I know what as done that but although may
    not be true in your case it unfortunately is in many.

    Right, my small useless uneducated brain says that if in your case,
    YOU have 2 systems with a standby voltage which are effecting socket
    activity differently it could be because 1 has WOL enabled & 1
    doesn't, (this should be the case) maybe not maybe its down to how
    different manufacturers make their products but shouldn't be because
    then the hardware is doing something you didn't ask it to do!!

    Now back to the original posting, could you tell me why, when I have
    WOL disabled do my PC's not release the sockets when shut down, that
    is what I am requesting them to do.

    The mysterious 5vSBY is simply a 5v bypass of the mains switch solely
    for the purpose of WOL, if I set WOL to disabled why is the 5v 5vSBY
    not dropped from the socket on shut down? This is all my problem is &
    it isn't faulty hardware, I have 4 PC's in the home all with different
    onboard LAN or NIC cards which all operate exactly the same.

    No more arguing just answer the question, that's all I came here for.
    I got disgruntled with the other poster because he told me my hardware
    was probably faulty because he didn't read that I said splitter rather
    than switch, I realised after my reply, to his error.

    I know its better not to reply at all than to start an argument but
    I'm human too sometimes. :eek:(
     
    Marge, Jan 13, 2009
    #19
  20. Marge

    Marge Guest

    The splitter, though is a cheap way of making use of my cabling &
    available sockets is sound honestly.
    Everything seems to work fine apart from the fact that I have to turn
    off mains power to the PC to release the socket. Not ideal.

    The problem is simply how PC's don't seem to release the sockets once
    activated even if WOL is disabled.
    I guess what I'm looking for is a NIC card without WOL & therefor
    5vSBY which is capable of modern traffic.

    Please see original post for better discription.
     
    Marge, Jan 13, 2009
    #20
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