Partition Magic 8.0 - Partition table error #105 found

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006.

  1. I have a system with one large partition. It has Vista x64 build 5381
    on it. The file system is the new version of NTFS from Vista, formatted
    from within the Vista install program.

    Anyway, I wanted to resize the partition, but I can't do anything with
    the drive in PartitionMagic right now; I get the error listed in the
    Subject line. A quick Google reveals:

    105 - Partition does not start on cylinder boundary

    The Head value of CHS begin is not 0 or 1. PartitionMagic expects all
    FAT, HPFS and NTFS partitions to start and end on cylinder boundaries.
    (Comment: Windows NT on Alpha does not comply with this rule, and can
    create partitions starting on arbitrary sectors. There is no known
    operating system that requires this restriction. However, there exists
    software that tries to guess the disk geometry by looking at the CHS
    start and end values in a partition table. Note that with large disks
    CHS values are entirely meaningless.)

    Any idea on how I can fix this so I can actually work with the
    partition? I haven't had much luck with fdisk /mbr in the past. I'm
    totally stuck, and any help would be appreciated.

    ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006
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  2. ajlovesportland

    Plato Guest

    Contact the Author of the OS BETA program you are testing for the fix.
    As you agreed to when you chose to test a BETA APP.
    Plato, May 19, 2006
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  3. Today, with great enthusiasm and quite emphatic, laid this
    spiel on an innocent readership
    It isn't a good idea to try and fool Mother Nature. PM got
    homogonized out of existance when Symantec bought it from
    PowerQuest, but even so, one can hardly expect a product to work
    on a beta O/S. Sure hope you're playing with fire - i.e., Vista,
    on a dual-boot or completely different PC and that you have done
    frequent image backups, else you'll soon be getting a visit from
    Murphy (if you haven't already).
    All Things Mopar, May 19, 2006
  4. This is officially the least helpful newsgroup EVER!
    ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006
  5. Your post as well does not help me. Try again.
    ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006
  6. Today, with great enthusiasm and quite emphatic, laid this spiel
    on an innocent readership
    As has already been pointed out, contact the manufacturer of PM and
    Vista, between the two of them, they can help you. Or, not. People
    who choose to beta test software, especially O/S, should be fully
    aware of the risks and take proper precautions. One other
    suggestion, look at the ssytem requirements and operating systems
    supported by PM 8.0. Do you find Vista there? It isn't in my
    All Things Mopar, May 19, 2006
  7. Today, with great enthusiasm and quite emphatic, laid this spiel
    on an innocent readership
    you came here with a problem that isn't even addressed by this NG,
    what did you expect? again, contact Symantec and Microcrap as well
    as the manufacturer of your PC and its various components. If,
    after doing that and re-re-reviewing the system requirements and
    O/S's supported by PM 8.0 and you still don't get help, sue the
    All Things Mopar, May 19, 2006
  8. You just love crapping all over my dreams, don't you? Listen, buddy,
    I'm a senior vice admin at Microsoft, so don't even get started with
    ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006
  9. ajlovesportland

    Ponder Guest

    Hiya .

    Every time I've used Partition Magic I've always had to revert to
    reformat/reinstall. It's a dangerous tool to use with existing filesystems,
    and as you formatted the drive with Vista then I'd strongly suspect that
    it's the beta filesystem itself that's causing the problems due to PM not
    providing support for it.
    Ponder, May 19, 2006
  10. You, sir, are a disgrace to your species.
    ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006
  11. ajlovesportland

    Vanguard Guest

    If all it takes is one person's opinion regarding the helpfulness or
    other attribute of a newsgroup, this and every other group has as many
    shades of usefulness as there are participants. Thanks for sharing.
    Vanguard, May 19, 2006
  12. ajlovesportland

    Whiskers Guest

    So you expect an assorted miscellany of people who just happen to hang out
    in a newsgroup not even related to computers, to somehow produce an
    instant, concise, detailed, and faultlessly correct, set of step-by-step
    instructions to get you out of the hole you've dug for yourself by using
    a beta-testing operating system and file system? And to do it free, and
    quicker than the people who created the beta-testing stuff that you are
    playing with?

    If the beta-testing OS you are testing lacks the means to create, format,
    and manage, partitions which it can itself recognise as 'valid', then
    perhaps, just perhaps, that could be exactly the sort of thing that the
    producers of that OS expect their beta-testers to at least report in
    excruciationg detail - if not provide a viable 'fix' for as well.

    It is of course entirely unreasonable to expect some other program to have
    any idea how the as-yet unreleased and unfinished beta-testing OS might
    create and format partitions, so you shouldn't be at all surprised that
    'Partition Magick' gets confused.

    If you 'haven't had much luck with fdisk /mbr in the past' perhaps you
    should surrender your 'Microsoft beta-tester' secret decoder ring and go
    back to using operating systems that have already been officially released
    with full support.
    Whiskers, May 19, 2006
  13. Perhaps *you* should surrender your license for being a human.
    ajlovesportland, May 19, 2006
  14. ajlovesportland

    Vanguard Guest

    Powerquest developed the product to run under Windows. It doesn't run
    under Linux, HP-UX, AIX, AS/400, IBM VM, Solaries, SCO, OS/X, or any
    other operating system. So Powerquest developed the product based on
    what Microsoft had incorporate to their partitioning requirements for
    Microsoft's operating system - and, according to you, that has been to
    require that partitions start on a cylinder boundary. Well, now Vista
    has, according to, decided to abandon that requirement to equalize it
    with other operating systems that also do not have that requirement.

    Symantec is a software publisher, not a software developer. Every
    product they have was bought from someone else. They bought Powerquest
    to quash them out of existence. They used the engine from DriveMagic to
    replace their antiquated Ghost engine but they don't seem to care about
    any of the other products they got from Powerquest. So, just as when
    they bought PC Tools, their intent is to let the product wane and
    eventually vaporize. That means PartitionMagic will not be getting
    updated to support a new version of NTFS. In fact, when NTFS changed
    from version 4 to version 5, PM had problems with NTFS5, too (it's been
    too long for me to remember what PM couldn't handle with NTFS5). No
    product can be forward compatible, especially when the product is
    developed when whatever you think with which it should be forward
    compatible doesn't even exist yet even in the planning stage.

    The days of PM are numbered. Symantec isn't going to update it. If
    Microsoft makes changes to NTFS or to any other file system then any
    tools that based themselves on the old versions will have to get updated
    to handle those changes. It is highly unlikely that Symantec will
    update PM. If you attempt to install and use a product on an operating
    system that the product does not specify that it supports, well, then
    it's iffy whether the product will work or not. Products that rely
    solely on the system API to perform those functions will continue to
    work. Low-level products, like PM, are more susceptible to changes in
    the OS.

    PM doesn't support the change in NTFS that Microsoft implemented in
    their beta Vista OS. Okay, so how are you going to get PM to work? You
    could contact Symantec (they have a web form for submitting support
    requests) but they'll probably simply say that the staid product that
    they will not be updating doesn't support that OS. You could try to use
    PM on Linux, too, but Symantec will simply tell you that PM doesn't
    support that OS. Since YOU were the one that chose to migrate to Vista
    then it is your responsibility to first check if the drivers are
    available, if your low-level tools will work (guess that is what you've
    just done regarding PM), and if your applications will run. You are
    running a beta OS so *you* are the beta tester. That was your choice.
    Hopefully you weren't so foolish as to make this beta OS your only OS;
    i.e., you don't go testing beta software on your workstation, critical
    host, or your only computer unless you don't *use* your computer and
    instead just want to continually play with it or need the training.

    There are newsgroups dedicated to Vista. Don't bother asking this group
    about what some particular beta software can or cannot do or problems
    with it. Do you ask a bunch of scuba divers on who manufacturers the
    best parachute? Do you ask in a Word group about problems with AutoCAD?
    Go ask in a community focused on the topic of your problem.

    According to the manual (yep, I have PM8, too, but I really don't expect
    it to support anything beyond Windows XP), it says:

    "#105 Partition starts on wrong boundary
    The hard-disk partition table contains erroneous values. PartitionMagic
    partitions to begin and end on the correct cylinder boundaries. If they
    do not, the
    disk may be partially corrupted. In this circumstance, if PartitionMagic
    were to
    make any modifications it might cause the loss of data. Therefore,
    refuses to recognize any of the hard disk's partitions. To resolve this
    problem, see
    the instructions in "Resolving Partition Table Errors" on page 126."

    Well, that pretty much means that you cannot use PM if Vista is creating
    partitions that are not on a cylinder boundary (which is a pseudo
    boundary since LBA geometry translation in the BIOS is based solely on
    sectors and doesn't have cylinders anymore - but the BIOS will provide
    an alternate CHS table since low-level utilities, like PM, still might
    need those pseudo boundaries). Since Symantec isn't going to expend
    resources on a product that it doesn't care about in the Powerquest
    acquistion, you'll have to see if some other partition managers are
    usable. Maybe the Ranish Partition Manager ( might work.
    It's free. Ask the software author about your problem before trying to
    use it because maybe that program also only works on pseudo-cylinder
    boundaries; however, it seems geared to support other OS'es than just
    Windows. There is a link on their web page to a Yahoo Group where you
    can ask questions, like if Ranish PM will support partitions that are
    NOT on cylinder boundaries (since you say that Linux and other
    non-Windows operating systems do not have that requirement).

    Regardless of what operating system you have installed within a
    partition, that partition is found by the BIOS. After the POST, the
    BIOS finds the first fixed disk device, reads the first sector from it
    (cyl 0, head 0, sector 1 which is the MBR), finds the partition table
    (446 byte offset, or last 66 bytes - 64 for the four 16-byte partition
    table records and 2 for the disk signature), finds which partition table
    entry is marked as the active one, and reads that 16-byte entry to find
    the start of the partition. Then the BIOS goes to the first sector of
    that partition and passes control to the loader program located there
    (that starts the load of the OS). Although the LBA geometry translation
    changes CHS to a huge sector count, the partition table records still
    use both the CHS scheme (for INT 13 compatibility) along with the LBA
    sector count scheme to determine the start point of a partition. Well,
    PM can run outside of Windows (i.e., you can use a DOS bootable floppy
    on which PM installed its "rescue" setup) and PM may use the CHS entries
    in the partition table records.

    Read, "Partition Table Rules", item
    4, which discusses how *Microsoft's* FDISK utility works. It will
    create partitions that start on cylinder boundaries. Voila! That why
    PM expects Windows partitions to start on cylinder boundaries. It may
    not require cylinder boundaries on non-Windows partition types
    (designated by the partition type byte in the partition table record)
    but since FDISK has traditionally enforced the cylinder boundary then PM
    was coded to also check that compliance. Well, now Vista doesn't
    enforce the cylinder boundary for partitions BUT the partition type byte
    probably still specifies a Windows operating system (i.e., the partition
    type byte still uses the old values to identify a DOS/Windows based
    operating system; see for a list
    of values for the partition types). There is no de facto standard value
    for Vista (unless someone in the Vista group can identify the value for
    us). Hey, you could do that. use a partition table editor to see what
    value is in the partition type byte of the partition table record for
    your Vista partition. Maybe Microsoft used a unique value, or they
    could've used one of those that have previously designated a *NIX
    operating system, but most likely Microsoft is still using the old
    values for their old versions of Windows - and PM then gets confused
    because FISK in those old versions of DOS or Windows forced the
    DOS/Windows partitions to start on a cylinder. So, assuming you didn't
    foolishly use Vista as your critical host and you are just experimenting
    with it on a test host, I suppose you could try changing the partition
    type from a Windows value to one that specifies a different operating
    system, like Linux, and then see if the old and staid version of PM8
    will then move that partition.

    PM8 is coded for how FDISK worked under the old versions of DOS and
    Windows. It won't understand non-standard partition boundaries used by
    Vista if they don't match the old scheme enforced by the old FDISK
    utility (well, for DOS/Windows partition types, that is). Symantec
    updating PM to support Vista would sure surprise me. However, if you do
    manage to get the Vista-created partition moved to a cylinder boundary,
    I still wouldn't trust PM8 to be doing anything on it later. Since this
    is a BETA operating system on which you are experimenting, is there a
    reason why you cannot use a DOS bootable floppy and use FDISK to delete
    all partitions and then recreate them so they *do* begin (and end) on
    cylinder boundaries? If FDISK cannot understand the current
    partition(s) (because they are not on cylinder boundaries), the setup
    program for Vista should let you delete partitions (where then you would
    normally create and format them in the rest of the install). In other
    words, get rid of the partitions, even if you have to use a partition
    table editor, and create them using FDISK, and then reuse those
    preexisting partitions during the install of Vista. Then PM should be
    handle those cylinder-bounded partitions that were created with a
    pre-Vista version of FDISK, and Vista should be able to also use those
    cylinder-bounded partitions created by a pre-Vista version of FDISK.

    By the way, you didn't have to Google for the 105 error. The errors are
    listed in the .pdf manual that gets included when you install PM.
    Vanguard, May 19, 2006
  15. ajlovesportland

    Whiskers Guest

    No licence required.

    Please learn how to 'quote' properly; G2 /can/ do it.
    Whiskers, May 19, 2006
  16. ajlovesportland

    Whiskers Guest

    So go back to administering senior vice. Leave operating systems to
    people who know a bit about them.
    Whiskers, May 19, 2006
  17. Please learn how to eat my poo.

    People like you are what's wrong with the world.
    ajlovesportland, May 20, 2006
  18. ajlovesportland


    Jun 24, 2009
    Likes Received:
    I had the same issue in PM

    What I did was use the Windows XP CD and get through to the point where you select your partition, after that I deleted the original partition and resized the partition to a smaller size after that quit the set-up and the machine will reboot. Insert your PM CD and it should work..

    Hope It works for you guys 8)
    ricky77, Jun 24, 2009
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