Part 2 of the series I'm writing...

ROTFLMAO. Yeah, but it needs modification and editing! Perhaps we need
to add a column for <rants>?

 

Another forum possibly?

 

Another forum possibly?
God no! Anyway, it would have to be non-moderated. lol

 

Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:

I blame all of the above. MS has a definate share of the blame for the
value of the certs. The marketing says premier cert but it doesn't have
the necessary components to make it a real indication of someone's
capabilities. It's really just a marketing tool for MS to sell
software. As is, it makes them money. And of course they are making
noises that show their commitment to the certs by closing down a few
test centers and such. That keeps them making money. And that's the
bottom line -- they will do what is profitable and no more. And the
certs will remain as worthless as they are no matter what pretty new
names they give them. I don't expect them to change but I won't get
sucked into their marketing scheme again. I won't be taking any more
exams unless I have to in order to keep a job.

As for the expense of real certification programs, what do you expect?
You get what you pay for. You want cheap, don't expect it to be worth
anything when you're done.


--

Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."

 

I blame all of the above. MS has a definate share of the blame for
the

I was hoping you would chime in on this thread!

The certification, IMHO, is pretty diverse for what it stands for. You
are required to learn both the client and server side of things plus
your choice of what you want to specialize in, i.e. electives. There is
a lot of knowledge and information packed into the MCSE certification.
It all depends if it applies to you.

There is no doubt that they are in it for the money. But so is every
certification program, including Cisco. Do you think Cisco just donates
their certification revenue to the poor?

Why do you think that is? What has Microsoft done to make this
certification worthless?

<disclaimer: no kool-aid was ingested while composing this post>

 

The certificate is still a good target for the learners. When you are
learning a new product or new skill, you need to know at where you have
learnt enough, or at where you could be safe to stop. Passing the
certfication exam is a good milestone for your learning. It's also the
driving force to push yourself to learn new products/technologies which you
may be needed in the future but useless at your current position. However,
I agree that you shouldn't expect the paper, with a preprinted signature of
Bill Gates, to be worth anything when you're done.

From another point of view, I do agree that MS uses the cert as a marketing
tool. The cert and the exam itself won't make money for MS. It's the
sales effect behind helps MS sell more software. Clients will believe those
MS Partners at gold level or with specific completence could provide
solutions to satisfy their needs. People who have earned MS certs are
willing to buy MS products instead of products from other company. MS wants
more people get certified. MS wants more of its partners get completence in
different areas to strength its sales network. That's why MS didn't make
the MCXX certs like CCIE. They want the certs to be cheap and easy to get.
It doesn't matter whether the partners get their cert/completence by
cheating or not.

 

Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:

By components, I don't mean the objectives. I mean the process by which
you are examined. It's just too easy to cheat. So there is no real
proof. If someone can get the cert without knowing diddly, it has no
value as proof of your capabilities.

It's what they haven't done. They don't have to to make it harder to
cheat to achieve their goal. They don't have to have people who really
know how to support their products, they just need X number of people
who have passed the exams to make their marketing claims. And, yes, I
know they are in the business to make money and so are the other vendors
who have certs. And I don't believe any of their bull either. Most
people do, though. Sad.
--

Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."

 

Ahh, but while I agree that there is value to Microsoft exclusively in the
number of certified professionals, I feel strongly also that Microsoft
recognizes that the learning process which they have published will be
strongly devalued if the field reputation becomes such that it is no longer a
sought after certification.

Again, I think there will always be the temptation to cheat and some people
(out of laziness, ineptitude, etc) will prefer to pass the tests with that
means in order to gain the credential so long as there is an economic
incentive to do so.

Therefore, it is my personal view that the route to ensuring integrity while
maintaining accessibility in the field is through cracking down on the supply
chain for this information. One of the best assets that Microsoft has is the
level of availible assets. Therefore, apply some money that might ordinarily
go to a BIF project subsidization and setup an online reporting site for test
center fraud. $XYZ amount of money if your claim can be verified.

Use the legal teeth to go after test "prep" (dump) providers. This is
difficult and takes a long time but if you start now by the time that
Longhorn certification is stabilizing in the mainstream of professionals, you
will begin to see the effect. Using an RIAA-like approach to go after the
end-users who use these things will never work and will only serve to garner
additional ill will in the industry so you really need to focus on ensuring
that the economic consequences of violating the confidentiality of material
are of a sufficient risk that starting a commercial braindump operation
becomes unattractive.

Use pattern matching and random sampling to identify those that were
statistically almost certain to have used a particular braindump methodology.
Send them warning letters. If you can prove beyond a shadow of doubt using
a method that would stand up to public scrutiny, revoke a small subset of
certification credentials garnered via braindumps or other agreement
violations and publish it as far, wide, and as loud as you can. Put the
community on notice that Microsoft really is serious about maintaining
certification integrity.

 

Ahh, but while I agree that there is value to Microsoft exclusively in
the

I do not think I disagree with one viewpoint you listed Wayne! Also, I
believe your post
http://blog.avanadeadvisor.com/blogs/waynea/archive/2006/12/05/682.aspx
is a must read for anyone interested in certifications in the I.T.
field. Good Job!

 

Well, everyone here has reason in many ways and I don't pretend to contend
against anyone, but I want to say something:

In very personal point of view, when I passed my first exam 70-210 and I
knew I was an MCP, for me was a big achievement and I felt proud of it.

I'm not a newbie, I started to work in computers since I was 18, when
machines still had 5 1/4 floppy drives and the MS DOS version was 2.0, the
time in history when you had to type a real command with the correct
parameters to make it work.

Now, I work as developer and webmaster and I still feel the same pasion in
what I do. I don't care if Certifications means nothing for some people, but
for me are milestones in my career because I live from doing this.

My job and experience is where I get the money to pay my rent, living
expenses, family and I can't come out bragging that Certifications means
nothing.

 

Blackmetal piffled away vaguely:

I understand what you are saying. And in that context, the cert does
have value. I learned a lot during the process and filled in some gaps
in my knowledge. I just don't look for any further reward from the
process and I could have saved almost a buncha money on exam fees. The
exam preparation process is really enough for me, providing structure
and focus. And I can skip the parts that I don't need, like RRAS.

--

Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."

 

I understand what you are saying. And in that context, the cert does

Excellent point Cat. That's why I suggest to people to ask themselves,
"Why do I want this certification" or "Why certify". You and I both have
seen the individual posts come in almost daily from noobs who want to
know the best way to get certified. Or what certification is best for
them. Why concentrate on the certification(s) when experience will get
you so much farther in your career? Again, excellent post.

 

Michael D. Alligood piffled away vaguely:

Dagnabit, you keep up this approval thing and they're gonna come and
take my MCNGP away.
--

Catwalker
MCNGP #43
www.mcngp.com
"I have a gun. It's loaded. Shut up."

 

<helping maintain image> Your advice and opinions SUCK.

 

That's one.

 

what are you trying to say?