Paper Quality

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by John, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Forgot about beer being imperial still. I don't drink beer though,
    mainly vodka so I forgot that one. Usually the odd occasion I have
    beer its from a bottle.

    Also in the US their gallons are slightly less than ours. I believe
    they are 3.8 litres to 1 US gallon, whereas here it is 4.55 litres to
    a UK gallon. Despite the difference, and even with fuel prices in the
    US high by American standards they still get it a lot cheaper than we
    do ;(

    I've got to admit the regular drinks you can get in the US you can get
    bottles of coke etc in lots of different sizes. Here you would have a
    330ml can, then the 500ml bottle. Next up it would be 1 or 1.5 litres.
    2 litres and 3 litre bottles. I think in the States they get 355ml
    cans, 600ml bottles, and so on for lower prices than we get lesser
    amounts.

    John
     
    John, Jan 16, 2006
    #21
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  2. John

    John Guest

    Yes I have been doing that mate. The problem is that it was cheap
    office paper probably 80gsm, and I was printing two sides, one side
    was a photo the other test (using pretty much the entire scope of the
    paper (almost edge to edge), but I was printing it using the lowest
    settings for plain paper, either draft or just text mode.

    I have been using white card on the heavyweight paper setting, but
    that is too time consuming because I have to manually feed each one to
    avoid jams, and it also uses more ink. This is why I wanted to find a
    high quality paper especially for colour ink jet printing.

    John
     
    John, Jan 16, 2006
    #22
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  3. John

    John Guest

    Thanks for all the helps guys.

    What is a ream? Is that a pack of 500 sheets?

    I went to Staples today in Leeds at lunchtime and was going to buy
    some paper. I was a little disappointed because they had 80, 90 and
    100g but no 120g. The next weight was 160g.

    They did have some Epson paper at 90g which I was going to buy and
    just see if it did the job, it was on special offer at £4-99 for 500
    sheets, but I was waiting in the queue for something like 10 minutes,
    they only had one person on the till serving and she was taking her
    time so I just put it back and walked out. I had to get back for work.

    I'm glad I didn't get it though because the paper I have used I
    believe is 80g and if that is showing through on two sided printing
    and curling, I'm sure this would as well as it is not much heavier.

    I don't really need a double coated paper because I just really need
    to print the photo on one side and basic text on the other. I don't
    need to print the photo with any of the best settings, just a low
    quality setting that uses less ink is all I need to do it with.

    I ended up going to another stationary shop in Leeds after work and
    got some 100gsm ink jet paper. I just got 100 sheets, but will give
    this a try and see if it is any good. Then I will be able to tell
    whether I really need 120gsm or can drop to 90 or stick with 100.

    I will have to check out the Viking Direct paper that has been
    recommended. The trouble with buying online though is that the
    postage costs will make it quite expensive unless you are buying lots
    of other things at the same time or bulk buying.

    One final thing, I just wondered if any places here in the UK sell
    paper in the "Legal" size? It is a little bit bigger than A4 size at
    21.60x35.55 (8.5x14"). I think this size could be quite useful for
    certain things, like printing out web pages etc.

    Cheers

    John
     
    John, Jan 16, 2006
    #23
  4. John

    me Guest

    Once you get to thirty quid with viking its free delivery, even below
    that I don't think its much.
     
    me, Jan 17, 2006
    #24
  5. John

    zakezuke Guest

    I've got to admit the regular drinks you can get in the US you can get
    I've been told by UK residents that fountain drinks tend to be smaller
    but work out to be about the same price for the smaller size.

    I'm not up on soda. I simply have bought any in years. I know there
    are glass bottles of coke available in the 10oz size. These are rare
    as these bottles are actually recycled at the local bottler though
    co-operation with the reseller. They e-bay more than the value of the
    think, so they are getting fewer and fewer.

    I've even seen 6 ounce 1/2 can cokes though mostly in hospitals. I
    can't say i've ever seen anything larger than 2l in cola but when ever
    I have actually bought soda i've taken the time to evaluate the
    prices... and basicly a 2l bottle foats at about 99cents in a
    supermarket where as a 20oz bottle from a gas station costs over
    99cents. This is common among the big names who engage in a price war.
    Any soda I would like simply isn't big enough to play that game and
    one would have to spend the usual price, which foats at about 3 to 4
    bucks a 6 pack, or 2.50 per 2l bottle the last time I would have
    looked.

    But franky... the few times i've bought any sort of drink... it would
    have been either iced tea or iced coffee in big mouth glass bottles.
    6oz for coffee and I think 20+oz for tea. Those things I can actually
    reuse.
     
    zakezuke, Jan 17, 2006
    #25
  6. John

    Martin Guest

    It's a pack of paper that's usually between 300 and 500 sheets depending
    on the paper weight... 160gsm card would obviously have fewer sheets but
    the same rough weight in paper.
    Remember that your printer will have a limit to the type, weight and
    thickness of paper it can receive. I've noticed that there are heavy
    inkjet papers for things like photo printing that are 200gsm+ but if you
    were to try paper or card at that weight it wouldn't go through. I can't
    be 100% but I'm reasonably sure the issue is thickness and/or issues
    with the rollers being able to gain enough traction to pull the paper
    through. I'm more than willing to be corrected on that though.

    I've had a few reams of 90gsm and it's come out rather well, even with
    double sided printing... There's some minimal show through but nothing
    to write home about.

    Try googling for legal/law office supplies, that might help... or even
    ask your local accountant where they get their supplies from.



    Thanks to livewire for the tip on viking direct though... :)

    Martin
     
    Martin, Jan 17, 2006
    #26
  7. John

    usenet Guest

    I thought a ream was 500 sheets regardless of weight.
     
    usenet, Jan 17, 2006
    #27
  8. John

    Martin Guest

    It could be an official measure but I have here a pack of 160gsm card...
    It doesn't refer to itself as a "ream" but I'd probably call it that in
    passing.

    YMMV
     
    Martin, Jan 17, 2006
    #28
  9. I'm coming into this discussion a bit late so, I'm not sure what has
    already been mentioned.

    You have to be careful with paper weights, if they are done in pounds
    particularly (as many North American papers are rated). Those
    unfortunately have little to do with the weight of the paper you are
    buying in cut sizes like A4 or A3 (or letter size, or legal size, or
    whathaveyou). Paper weights when given in pounds are determined by the
    standard printers size the paper is cut to at the mill. They take, I
    believe 500 pages (which is one ream) and weight it, and that determines
    the weight of the paper, regardless of how it is cut up later.

    That would be fine except the standard paper size for weighing purposes
    is not consistent. Cover stock, or card stock or bond, all start at
    different standard sizes, so the weights do not correspond to one
    another is any logical fashion.

    Luckily, specialty papers have gone to using a much more logical system
    (although it doesn't necessarily correspond to the older "pounds"
    system). That is using grams (or grammes) per meter (or metre) square,

    This is a true "standard, because regardless of the cut size, or size of
    origin, the weight is based upon one square meter/metre of paper. So,
    each should be comparable, However, one more caveat. Paper weight does
    not tell you several other factors which can influence their use:

    Opacity - some papers have additives to make them more opaque to reduce
    "show through" from double-sided printing, while other papers may have
    high transparency,

    Absorbency - This can effect both dot gain, and if the paper is porous
    enough it may bleed ink right through to the other side

    Rigidity - This is how stiff the paper is. Some papers can be thick but
    floppy, others can be thin but rigid. Again additives and milling
    process can alter this characteristic. Most papers also have a "grain"
    which makes them more rigid in one direction than the other

    Surfacing - some papers have distinct "sides" to them, which others have
    equal qualities on both sides

    Texturing - the type of surface the paper displays. This may or may not
    alter how the inks respond.

    Thickness - paper weight may not be directly related to thickness. Some
    coatings weigh more than others, and some papers are weighed with the
    coatings and some only the base is considered. Kaolin clay is heavy,
    and a common coating on inkjet papers, for instance.

    Shed - some papers tend to flake off the surface with minimal
    manipulation. With inkjet printing, this can prove disastrous,
    particularly after the image has been printed.

    Surface consistency - some papers simply are milled from a variable pulp
    and these parts absorb ink differently. That can cause mottling or
    variation in darkness in otherwise evenly toned areas.

    There is no way to know before working with a specific paper how these
    different characteristics will interact. Papers designated for inkjet
    use, usually are designed to eliminate these variables, but if you, like
    myself, use papers not specifically designated for inkjet printing and
    use them in an inkjet setting, there are bound to be surprises, some
    pleasant, and some just a bit surprising.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Jan 17, 2006
    #29
  10. John

    Surfer! Guest

    <Snip>

    The OP is in the UK (Leeds to be precise) so he doesn't have those
    things to worry about... :)
     
    Surfer!, Jan 17, 2006
    #30
  11. Yes, I did mention that in the very next paragraph that you did not
    quote, BUT, he was discussing reams, and legal size paper, all North
    American usage, so, in the spirit of this group which is international
    in scope, I gave both sides to the information.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Jan 17, 2006
    #31
  12. John

    usenet Guest

    We use reams here in the UK, all the paper I buy still comes in reams.
     
    usenet, Jan 17, 2006
    #32
  13. John

    Martin Guest

    (snipped)

    Thanks Art... that was one informative post... much appreciated.
     
    Martin, Jan 17, 2006
    #33
  14. John

    Rob Guest



    Well try this one then - I thought it was 500 sheets.



    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ream

    1. A quantity of paper, formerly 480 sheets, now 500 sheets or, in a
    printer's ream, 516 sheets.

    rm
     
    Rob, Jan 17, 2006
    #34
  15. John

    John Guest

    I tested the 100gsm paper and I'm glad I only bought a small amount of
    it. It's only slightly better than the cheap paper I had before.

    I am just going to go for it now, no messing about and buy it online.
    I am going to use up the rubbish paper I have for less important
    things, and from now onwards anything important text-wise I will
    always do on 120gsm paper. For what I need to do with the double
    sided printing though I am going to use 160gsm paper, that should
    hopefully do the trick. I think that 160gsm should be at the halfway
    point between being card and paper so with some luck it will still be
    quite flexible and the printer wont have trouble with sucking it
    through.

    I took a look at the Viking site and also the Euroffice one and they
    both seem to be quite good for different grades of paper. I will buy
    some 120 and 160 paper from one of these places. I am also googling
    for places I can buy Legal sized paper here in the UK. No joy so far
    at reasonable prices, but I'll keep looking.

    I didn't know a thing about paper a few days ago but now I am learning
    an awful lot especially from everyone in here (there's a lot of
    experts), and through trial and error ;)

    Cheers

    John
     
    John, Jan 17, 2006
    #35
  16. I haven't had a chance to check the UK sites, but for what you're
    talking about, you really should look into getting a coated paper,
    such as brochure paper or HP's 'Presentation Paper'. It will say
    'matte coated' 'opaque' 'no show through' 'print both sides' or
    something similiar on the packaging. The HP Presentation paper is only
    120 gsm, but prints quite nicely, at least on my HP machine. The
    package says 'For use with any inkjet paper'. You can have cardstock
    weight paper, but if it's not opaque or coated, you might still see
    the print through it. Most cardstock is not made for inkjets, I have
    expensive ultra-white cardstock for doing business laser printing
    with, but inkjet prints come out fuzzy. Unless the stock you buy
    specifically says 'multi use' or 'for inkjets', it might not show
    through, but it might not look good either.

    ---

    http://www.FenrirOnline.com

    Computer services, custom metal etching,
    arts, crafts, and much more.
     
    Fenrir Enterprises, Jan 18, 2006
    #36
  17. (snipped)
    Sorry but your description of a ream is not true.
    A ream is a specific number of sheets and has
    nothing to do with the weight of the paper. A
    ream is 20 quires (look that up!).

    Like many measures there have been some variations
    over the years. The current definition of a ream
    of paper standard for printing and copying is 500
    sheets. There is also a Printer Ream (a few
    sheets more probably an allowance for testing) and
    some other definitions, but they are all about 20
    quires

    Occasionally one will see the term "Ream" used
    inappropriately, sometimes because of ignorance,
    sometimes in an attempt to cheat the public.
     
    George E. Cawthon, Jan 18, 2006
    #37
  18. It is!
     
    George E. Cawthon, Jan 18, 2006
    #38
  19. Ah, glad you cleared that up.
     
    George E. Cawthon, Jan 18, 2006
    #39
  20. John

    Martin Guest

    Well I stand corrected... thanks for clearing that up
     
    Martin, Jan 18, 2006
    #40
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