Page File size - I've been thinkinig.

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Lord Turkey Cough, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. Was wonderinig what to set that too, I set it a while back to 10 gig :O)
    reason being I have piles of spare disk space so I thought "I might as
    well make use of it!!"

    Any I returned to the issue recently as I was a bit concerned about
    performance.
    More page file needed I thought :O|

    However upon futher though I think the big page file may be the problem
    not the solution.

    I have 1.25 gig of memory and most of the time there seems to be a fair bit
    free,
    currently 735 meg 'available'.

    I now think I would be better off without a pagefile at all. I think page
    files are only
    good for frequently used stuff and I don't have enough of it and that now
    they system
    is wasting time writing a load of 'crap' to the page file which will
    probably never be
    needed again.

    For example I was cleaninig out a load of stuff I recorded from TV, some big
    files
    up to 3 gig. Now I think once it reads em in (so I can see what is recorded)
    it is writing them back to the page file.A total waste of time.
    I would go as far as to say it more than halving my computers speed on many
    occasions. (writes take a long time).

    Im gonna set it to zero. It's pointless having one with 1.2 gig of ram.
     
    Lord Turkey Cough, Oct 14, 2007
    #1
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  2. OK done it. Will let you know it what effect it has :O)
     
    Lord Turkey Cough, Oct 14, 2007
    #2
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  3. Lord Turkey Cough

    kony Guest

    You don't need a 10GB pagefile, but in some cases you could
    need one even with 1.25GB of memory. While the system will
    run (many) things without a pagefile, eventually when you
    run something that needs more virtual memory it may cause a
    problem. Try a 2GB pagefile.

    When your system reads a bit TV capture file, it is not
    writing any of that out to the pagefile. The pagefile is
    only for things that need to remain in memory (but you're
    ran out), or addt'l address space reserved by applications
    that "might" end up using up to that much memory even if
    they don't.

    If you have excessive HDD activity it is more likely due to
    filesystem fragmentation, or some other OS setting you have
    changed from the defaults.
     
    kony, Oct 14, 2007
    #3
  4. Lord Turkey Cough

    Guest Guest

    | Im gonna set it to zero. It's pointless having one with 1.2 gig of ram.

    It depends on the amount of RAM you have and the amount of memory you use.
    Todays applications tend to need more. As computers get bigger in memory,
    the software developers steal it away from you with more bloated programs.

    If you can possibly increase your RAM, that would be best. If using XP,
    try to reach 3 GB but beyond that it's not much help. I don't know about
    Vista. Linux can go up to 64GB in the 32 bit version.

    I'm looking at a new desktop system for my Linux work and plan to make it
    a swapless system with 8GB to 16GB of RAM. The intent is to avoid the
    I/O activity of swapping.
     
    Guest, Oct 14, 2007
    #4
  5. Lord Turkey Cough

    Mike Walsh Guest

    32 bit Windows can address 4 GB memory, so the most paging file it can use is 4 GB.
    When WinNT was may main OS I tried running without a paging file and it would cause a crash after running for a while. I have not tried WinXP without a paging file so I don't know if it will work or not.
     
    Mike Walsh, Oct 14, 2007
    #5
  6. The 4GB limit is tied to the physical address space. The pagefile
    doesn't live here, so you can more than 4GB of pagefile
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?j=F8rgen?=, Oct 14, 2007
    #6

  7. Seems to be running fine, nice and smooth no prblems to report
    whatsoever. I can't see the point of having a cache with over a gig of ram,
    its counter productive A giga of data by definition cannot be frequently
    used.
    It just creates a lot of unneccesary, wasting time, energy and disk space
    and bearings!!
    Possibly the worst idea in the history of computing!!
     
    Lord Turkey Cough, Oct 15, 2007
    #7
  8. Lord Turkey Cough

    kony Guest

    Well... in that case some people wouldn't buy that much
    memory?

    You can disable the pagefile and everything will run fine,
    even a trivially small percent faster, but then odd problems
    can develop later.

    For example I ran a gaming system fine with pagefile
    disabled, then during some game (I forget what it is at this
    point), it would randomly either freeze or kick me out to
    the desktop (I forget which). Lots of people would've
    suggested power/cooling/drivers/etc, but since I had fair
    confidence of the prior checks I'd done to the system a
    further investigation and enabling pagefile again resolved
    the problem.

    MS certainly doesn't want to rule out low-spec systems from
    running windows. Regardless, the scenario you posed
    previously about loading a video file would not cause it to
    page out to virtual memory. IF you were doing something
    particular, say loading that into a video editing
    application which then proceeded to allocate a very large
    chunk of memory for itself, in that case you would have a
    small write to the pagefile allocating, typically not yet
    paging out anything yet unless you had actually ran out of
    physical memory for the task you were trying to do.

    The disk space isn't very significant, it's not like anyone
    should be trying to squeeze every last GB of space out of
    their drive, as using the last portion is inherantly slower
    and tends to end up more fragmented. The energy is even
    less of a concern, it'd be a few mA difference in a system
    using several amps per rail, and it's not as though the
    drive wouldn't have been spinning since you are actively
    using the system.

    If you want to talk about waste in HDD access, consider
    Vista which actively reads in, superfetches files just "in
    case" you might want to use them, quickly filling much of
    the memory so that unless the system is quite well endowed
    with (otherwise more memory than would be needed), once you
    start using applications requiring some of this memory the
    superfetched data has to be discarded and re-read again
    before next execution. Like filling a bucket then dumping
    it out then filling and dumping all over again. This would
    be great if it were a 2 mile trip to the nearest well, and
    you had plenty of spare buckets. It's not so great when
    Vista is shipped with even low-end PCs now.
     
    kony, Oct 15, 2007
    #8
  9. A rule of thumb in linux is to make your swap file no bigger than the
    ammount of physical memory in your computer. That is probably a decent
    guideline to follow for windows as well. I would set it to 1gig and see if
    you run in to any problems. If you do then increase it to 2gig but 1 should
    be plenty alongside your 1gig physical ram.
     
    Michael Everson, Oct 15, 2007
    #9
  10. Lord Turkey Cough

    Noozer Guest

    That is an old wives tale.

    Does it really make sense to have a 128meg swapfile if you only have 128meg,
    but have a 1gig swapfile if you have 1gig?

    Let windows manage the size... If you have lots of ram you won't be hitting
    it very often anyhow.
     
    Noozer, Oct 15, 2007
    #10
  11. Lord Turkey Cough

    DevilsPGD Guest

    In message <[email protected]> "Noozer"
    It's a decent suggestion, IF the amount of RAM in your system is correct
    to begin with.

    Any/all of these "'x' times the amount of RAM" are totally useless if
    the amount of RAM isn't sized properly for expected average and expected
    peak loads.
     
    DevilsPGD, Oct 15, 2007
    #11
  12. No I don't really agree, I think 90% of the time it will just be swapping a
    load of crap
    you will never need again to disk, and disk writes are slow.
    I would say my computer is a lot more responsive since I ditched the page
    file.

    I don't wish to be rude, but the idea that you have over 1 gig of frequently
    used
    data is ludricrous - cloud cuckoo land. If you are reading in files that
    large might
    as well read the origiinal file.

    If you read in 100 meg then you would have to write a 100 meg to disk which
    is a much
    slower process then simply reading in the original file.

    Poiintless.
     
    Lord Turkey Cough, Oct 15, 2007
    #12
  13. Lord Turkey Cough

    GT Guest

    What exactly will you be doing that requires / can use that much RAM?
     
    GT, Oct 15, 2007
    #13
  14. Lord Turkey Cough

    GT Guest

    Contiguous swap file space versus fragmented original 100MB file. Could make
    loads of difference! I personally run with 1.5GB of RAM and swapfile
    disabled as I work with loads of small files that are read in, compiled, OBJ
    files created, linked etc etc. If the swapfile were busy at the same time,
    performance would drop.

    I would suggest running the simply Windows Task Manager. Leave it open for
    ages on the performance tab with the update speed (View menu) set to Low.
    See how much memory you 'peak' at. If you don't get anywhere near (maybe
    75%) full, then just turn off swapping. But if you run out of RAM, things
    WILL fail/crash.
     
    GT, Oct 15, 2007
    #14
  15. Lord Turkey Cough

    CBFalconer Guest

    Why? If you have enough memory no swapping will take place. If
    you don't, the swapping avoids crashing your software after it has
    been grinding out an answer for the past 8 hours.
     
    CBFalconer, Oct 15, 2007
    #15
  16. Yes I suppose they would, I think I might have had that once when I opened
    up a window on an application, sounds plausible.. Typically I have around
    1/2 gig available. I have just put my machine up towhat I would call 'max'
    usage, 4 poker applications, OE, several IE and a digital TV application
    running and I have 300 meg free. I would not normally run with that kind of
    load as it is quite a load on the CPU, especially the TV app.
    Anyway I will keep an eye on things in the task manager and see how I get
    on.
    It was fine yesterday and has been fine so far today. Generally I would
    prefer to run without a pagefile.
     
    Lord Turkey Cough, Oct 15, 2007
    #16
  17. If you only have 128 meg ram then you probably shouldnt be running much
    should you
     
    Michael Everson, Oct 15, 2007
    #17
  18. Sorry, your reply makes me laugh considering you are the one who asked for
    advice on the matter and originally had a 10 gig swap file. If you don't
    want to take advice that you have asked for then dont ask for it :)
     
    Michael Everson, Oct 15, 2007
    #18
  19. Lord Turkey Cough

    kony Guest


    True that's an extreme case, though I've seen plenty of
    low-end Dells/etc that shipped with WinXP, 256MB, and
    integrated video taking a little of that away.

    As for running much though, a 128MB system ran
    conservatively (not a lot of unnecessary services running
    nor 3rd party printer/scanner/etc/etc junk running) can do
    well enough at very light multitasking including web, email,
    office, providing the swapfile is enabled and set to a bit
    more than 256MB.
     
    kony, Oct 16, 2007
    #19
  20. Lord Turkey Cough

    kony Guest


    Suppose you have a system with 1GB in it. If your system
    has a pagefile and swaps out unneeded files once, it then
    has more real memory available for other tasks the rest of
    the time it is running. What can you do with this addt'l
    real memory? Not just run large jobs, it serves as a
    filecache so the tasks you ARE doing, don't have to be
    reread from HDD each time you start an application.

    Do you see? By paging something you never use out to
    swapfile, it can allow things you do use to be read from HDD
    only once instead of several times inbetween reboots. This
    tradeoff means that some may have a minor performance
    improvement disabling pagefile, but others won't and would
    have a significantly larger benefit keeping it enabled and
    set to a reasonable figure.
     
    kony, Oct 16, 2007
    #20
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