Output contrast issue: monitor to magazine CMYK

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Jytzel, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Jytzel

    Jytzel Guest

    I know that luminosity of papers is not as that of the
    monitor.Assuming that my monitor is caliberated, I want to make sure
    that what the print I get on magazine paper is exactly the same
    contrast as I see it on the monitor. Would there be any necessary
    adjustments of contrast?

    J.
     
    Jytzel, Nov 12, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jytzel

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: (Jytzel)
    If you have Photoshop 6, 7 or CS you can try to get the CMYK ICC profile the
    magazine uses (lotsa luck) and IF it is accurate (not likely) you can 'soft
    proof' to it and get an idea of the contrast. To do this put the profile in
    the profile folder (varies with OS) and with your file open in Photoshop do
    View > Proof Setup > Custom and under the 'profile' tab select the CMYK ICC
    profile.

    To mimic the difference between 'monitor white' and 'paper white' you need to
    check the 'Simulate: Paper White' box ... don't be surprised to see your image
    dim down quite a bit at this point. This is Photoshop's best guess at what the
    file will look like printed to the CMYK colors as defined by the ICC profile.

    To see if you have problematic colors that are out of gamut to this profile do
    View > Gamut Warning ... colors that get greyed out won't print accurately, so
    consider yourself warned. CMYK has a fairly tight gamut.

    This will give you a more or less accurate first-order guesstimate of what the
    final magazine print will look like IF your monitor has been accurately
    calibrated and profiled and IF you have an accurate ICC profile for the CMYK
    press (unlikely) and IF you are viewing the monitor under the same light
    conditions as when it was profiled. That's a lot of "ifs" and one reason why
    this is hard to do accurately, but you should be able to get some idea.

    Good luck.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Nov 12, 2004
    #2
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  3. Jytzel

    Bill Hilton Guest

    If you have Photoshop 6, 7 or CS you can try to get the CMYK ICC profile the
    Should also mention that if you just do View > Proof Colors Photoshop will soft
    proof to your default proof print profile, which is your default CMYK profile
    unless you have specifically modified this.

    To see what your default CMYK profile is do Edit > Color Settings and under
    "working spaces" you'll see a box for CMYK ... probably yours says "U.S. Web
    Coated (SWOP) v2" if you're in the USA ... click on the dropdown button and
    you'll see a list of 8 or 10 choices for your CMYK profile for Japan and Europe
    and some other US ones ... if the magazine won't provide you with a specific
    profile for their press (typically they won't) you could ask them which canned
    profile gives the best fit and go with that one.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Nov 12, 2004
    #3
  4. Jytzel

    Lee Blevins Guest

    It's not really possible.

    But if you're a die hard you'd want to make sure your rendering intent
    was absolute colormetric and not relative.
     
    Lee Blevins, Nov 12, 2004
    #4
  5. Jytzel

    Peadge Guest

    This may involve adjusting the lighting in which you are viewing the printed
    version to a certain level. Since your monitor is pretty much always the
    same luminosity, disregarding ambient light contamination, the comparison
    would have to depend on the type, brightness, spread, focus, color
    temperature, etc. of the external lighting source as well as the brightness
    and quality of the paper.

    Your monitor is RGB which is "additive" in that colors are added together to
    get white, whereas CMYK is "subtractive" in that all colors are minused out
    to get white. So you are really comparing apples and oranges.

    Peadge :)
     
    Peadge, Nov 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Jytzel

    Gareth Guest

    In Adobe software you can set up soft proofing to simulate paper white
    and ink black.
     
    Gareth, Nov 16, 2004
    #6
  7. Jytzel

    Göran E Guest

    You shouldnt use a word as "exact".

    A monitor is a monitor, its not a printed paper. You could never get a
    monitor to be exact the same.

    An experienced person learns as he/she goes along. The other ones cries out
    for help.....The printing business is not an exact science.

    WYSIWYG was the name of desktop publishing, in the early years. But they
    never intended color to be an issue.....they had b/w screens at that time.

    Learn everything about color-management, then do the best you can. Learn
    from your misstakes, and dont do them twice.

    /G
     
    Göran E, Nov 26, 2004
    #7
  8. Jytzel

    Aerticeus Guest

    I'd guess that this is possible given the following:
    that every paint/ink/lake/gel used in printing has its computational and
    mathematical model to predict bleeding, dried color
    that every form of thinners diluent and gel has its mathematical &
    computational model
    that every printing medium has its own computational & mathematical model
    and that there are in situ QC & QA monitoring steps to ensure consistency
    with models allowing local tweaks to parameters

    Other than that like the previous poster states - it is an artform

    Aerticeus

    ps - there ain't no substitutse for experience :0

    A
     
    Aerticeus, Nov 26, 2004
    #8
  9. A couple of anecdotes: I am taking a tutorial on-line. Most of the other
    students use the curve adjustment plug-in for web work or photo-printing. I
    am evaluating it for use in prepress. My examples are always flatter than
    theirs....finally realized why. I have been preparing work for webpress
    newsprint for so long my brain and eyes have adjusted to it...and my monitor
    is not set as bright as it used to be. Oh well...I can't be all things to
    all people.

    My monstrous boss...you may recall me mentioning her before...was looking
    for a cheaper commercial printer a couple of years ago. We would try one for
    a couple of issues and then try another. Not only did page format keep
    changing but so did the color. I could not adjust to it fast enough. I don't
    have the hardware to measure things...I just go by eye. So if one printer
    laid down a lot of black I got a darker photo. It didn't get better until we
    stopped changing printers. After a half dozen issues from one printer I
    adjusted. For me...I don't really think about the changes. Its just that if
    all the photos show a certain tendency towards a cast I start changing
    things in Photoshop.
     
    Gene Palmiter, Nov 28, 2004
    #9
  10. I'll eventually have similar concerns. My strategy for handling it
    will be to have proofs printed and then adjust the computer image
    so that it eventually corresponds to a 'good' print on a specific
    printer. If the contrast looks fantastic on my monitor and then
    prints out with too much contrast, I'll learn which RGB values are
    within range of the printer. It may help to setup a test image with
    gradations of color and gradations of values and use that for
    your proofs, and then go from there. Experiment. -doug
     
    doug (critiques are welcomed), Nov 28, 2004
    #10
  11. Jytzel

    Hecate Guest

    It would be far better to use proper colour management, get the
    profiles from the printer and soft proof the images.

    --

    Hecate - The Real One

    veni, vidi, reliqui
     
    Hecate, Nov 29, 2004
    #11
  12. You will need to set up a 5000 K proof/copy viewing station next to the
    monitor. Put a page from last issue in the viewing station and view
    the same page on the monitor. Use the monitor controls to adjust the
    contrast, etc. to simulate the print page. Repeat with several other
    pages. Check and make additional adjustments over several days.

    I recommend that you learn about color management and how it may be
    applied in your situation.

    Good Luck,

    Gary Secondino
     
    Gary Secondino, Dec 8, 2004
    #12
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