Openreach records have wrong postcode - how to fix it?

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Graham J, Jun 24, 2015.

  1. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Customer has postcode ending 0AL. Customer receives bills from BT for
    landline - these bills show correct postcode. Royal Mail postcode
    checking website confirms postcode matches house number.

    Customer has ADSL from Zen. Have ordered upgrade to FTTC from Zen.

    Confirmation from Zen shows correct phone number but different house
    number, and postcode ending 0BZ. This location is about a kilometre
    away from postcode ending 0AL.

    Zen say their information comes from "BT BROADBAND Tags On The Line
    Help". It shows the correct phone number, the correct exchange (EADNM),
    and the fact that the line is served from "Cabinet 10". It also
    suggests FTTC would achieve 80/20 performance.

    Given the geography I suspect the number is not actually served from
    Cabinet 10 at all. However, if it is, then the customer is unlikely to
    get the speed that is suggested on the "Tags" page.

    Is there any way to find out the exact location of "Cabinet 10", please?

    What part of BT would understand the situation and be able to correct
    the records?

    Graham J, Jun 24, 2015
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  2. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    To follow up my own post, the system from BT that Zen use to get Tag
    information is called ORDI.
    Graham J, Jun 24, 2015
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  3. Graham J

    Davey Guest

    Davey, Jun 24, 2015
  4. Graham J

    Martin Brown Guest

    What does DSL checker say for their phone number?

    In rural locations you can get bizarre postcoding due to individual
    houses being historically lumped in with somewhere else. A single house
    in our village has the misleading postcode 2LF for instance which binds
    to a physical location about a mile down the (bendy) road.

    It causes havoc with people driving on GPS systems since the real 2LF
    code location is a destination that people expect to be able to see!
    Martin Brown, Jun 24, 2015
  5. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Interesting - it confirms the line is wired to Cabinet 10 but does not
    show the customer's postcode.

    It is a subset of the data shown by ORDI.
    Graham J, Jun 24, 2015
  6. I had a very similar problem when I transferred from another ISP to
    Zen, in that my postcode happens to include a numeral 0 but BT had it
    in their database as a letter O. In the end it was Zen who sorted it
    out. I suspect their agent may have previously worked at BT and knew
    their system so knew what to ask for. My suggestion would be that
    you're likely to get more help from Zen than from BT.

    The best way to find the exact location of a particular cabinet is to
    start with Google Street View, then go for a stroll to take a closer
    look. That's how I found where mine is.

    Roderick Stewart, Jun 24, 2015
  7. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Do the cabinets show the identification number somewhere? I'm going to
    the site tomorrow so will have a walk round.
    Graham J, Jun 24, 2015
  8. Yes. They should have numbers stencilled on them, probably no more
    than two digits, and if there's a manhole cover nearby it will be
    marked BT, or Openreach (or if it's very old, like the one in my road,
    PO). The ones with long numbers and nearby manholes marked CATV are
    for Virginmedia.

    If you print out a map of the area nearby and mark on it any BT
    cabinets you already know about, this may help find others, because
    they tend to be placed at regular intervals along main roads or side
    roads just off them. Presumably the main cable routes follow the road.

    If there's a particular numbered cabinet you're interested in and you
    don't know of any others, you can sometimes narrow down its position
    using a kind of DF technique working from the speeds given by the BT
    Availability Checker webpage. Choose a few locations near where you
    think it is, and note in which directions on the map the estimated
    speeds increase. Then try Google Street View and hope for the best.
    The images on Google may be a few years out of date and may show an
    old box though it's actually been updated to fibre, so it's worth
    going to look at the box itself to make sure.

    Roderick Stewart, Jun 24, 2015
  9. Graham J

    Davey Guest

    That must be a contender for Understatement of the Year!
    Davey, Jun 24, 2015
  10. "Davey" wrote

    But perhaps BT is like the sound of no hands clapping and Zen the sound of
    one hand clapping ?
    Michael R N Dolbear, Jun 25, 2015
  11. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Found the cabinet labelled 10 less than 100 metres from my customer at
    postcode ending 0AL. Curiously it is just the one cabinet and it looks
    very old, quite unlike any that I've seen containing FTTC equipment.
    But the stencilled number looks new!

    Found the property at postcode ending 0BZ. Occupier reports several
    people trying to deliver to that address when the real recipient is
    elsewhere in the village.
    Graham J, Jun 25, 2015
  12. Graham J

    Davey Guest

    All my experiences with Zen are of the two-hand clapping type.
    Davey, Jun 25, 2015
  13. Graham J

    Martin Brown Guest

    It might be worth their while checking to see which postcode database
    has their postcode incorrectly. Or it could just be one of those crazy
    anomolies that date back to the layout of farms and farmland.

    Be worth the other guy putting his phone number into DSL checker too.
    Martin Brown, Jun 26, 2015
  14. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    It is the ORDI database at:

    .... that is wrong. Zen put in the phone number and ORDI gives them
    cabinet info, and postcode. The cabinet info is likely to be correct
    per my site visit yesterday. The people at postcode ending 0BZ are a
    kilometre away and if they are served from this cabinet they would
    likely not get a usable VDSL signal.

    The BT postcode checker gives the correct postcode for the house, which
    matches the details shown on the customer's landline bill from BT.
    Graham J, Jun 26, 2015
  15. AIUI in most locations BT have installed new larger steel cabinets alongside or near older cast iron cabinets. There were a number of reasons for this: -

    Old cabinets are often full.

    Old cabinets are leaky and unsuitable for the mains AC required for FTTC.

    Old cabinets are too small for new (500mm rack mounted?) equipment.

    Old cabinets often contain fragile and corroded aluminium wiring prevalent in the 70's that does not like being disturbed too much.

    Maybe in a remote village location the original cabinet was big enough and had enough room left for the equipment required.

    By comparison early Nynex cabinets were huge ~2m(w)x1.5m(h)x30cm. One near me has had gas leaking out of it for over a decade and yes this has been reported several times.
    R. Mark Clayton, Jun 26, 2015
  16. Graham J

    Jono Guest

    Graham J has brought this to us :
    ORDI isn't a system per se. It stands for OpenReach Data Integrity.

    Zen's agents should have individually registered with and can send the
    CLI to OR's Data Integrity Robot by email (ORDIRobot). This compares
    all systems and raises corrective orders if it finds any discrepancies.

    Zen could go a stage further than this and send the CLI plus the
    correct address to the Robot which will flag the email for manual
    intervention. If the ORDI Team can find an address match they will
    manually raise corrective orders.
    Jono, Jun 27, 2015
  17. Graham J

    Graham J Guest

    Ah, I thought that somebody at Zen should be able to communicate with
    the ORDI robot.

    So for the moment:

    1) I know the exact location of cabinet 10 - although I don't know
    whether its number is unique!

    2) My customer is less than 100 metres from the cabinet, which bodes
    well for getting VDSL to work.

    3) I have made friends with the people at the wrong postcode and house
    name, and will leave a note on their door for the Openreach engineer to
    call the landline number to gain access.

    Will let you know more after Thursday afternoon ...
    Graham J, Jun 28, 2015
  18. Graham J

    Kráftéé Guest

    "R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message

    AIUI in most locations BT have installed new larger steel cabinets
    alongside or near older cast iron cabinets. There were a number of
    reasons for this: -

    Wrong on most counts (if not all) the larger/extra cabs are being put
    into place to contain the 240v powered FTTC equipment with
    connections going to and from the original cab. Openreach engineers
    are not (as a whole) trained to deal with high voltages (240v AC is
    classed as high) so are not allowed to enter any CAB with a mains
    supply in it. Even if the old/original box is full all that happens
    is another box is placed next to it and a route put in place between
    the 2 (I've seen both above ground pipe and below ground link

    The time has not come for it all to be contained in one cab and I
    expect that it will never happen for the present FTTC product. Now as
    for the next generation and higher speeds things appear to be working
    out differently with the possibility of having (much smaller) boxes
    even at the top of poles (if not in the box at the bottom).
    Kráftéé, Jun 28, 2015
  19. Graham J

    Graham J Guest


    Given that the cabinet labelled 10 stands by itself, with no adjacent
    cabinet, is this consistent with the "Tags" report obtained by Zen from
    BT that confirms the phone line will support FTTC?

    Or does this mean that there is another cabinet also marked 10 at
    another location?

    Or is the possibility of having smaller boxes on poles or in the
    existing cabinet now here?
    Graham J, Jun 29, 2015
  20. Graham J

    Andy Burns Guest

    I wouldn't expect duplicate cab numbers on the same exchange, if they're
    on the border of two exchange areas you'd *hope* the person assigning
    the numbers would keep identical numbers away from each other.

    Any recent looking trench or manhole near the old cab?
    Andy Burns, Jun 29, 2015
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