Online IT Training

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Ray Greene, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    A colleague has asked for advice on gaining some training in IT. He
    has considerable programming and networking skills but no
    qualifications so is looking for some pieces of paper to impress the
    employment agencies. He's not yet decided which field to train in.

    He is impressed by the online training that www.skillsoft.com offer
    but we have found some negative criticism of them online.

    Has anyone any experience with Skillsoft, or can anyone recommend
    another training provider? Online courses would be preferable.

    Also how much value does an MCSE have these days when job hunting?
    When I got mine years ago it was highly sought after, but I don't know
    if that is still the case.

    (crossposted to nz.general)
     
    Ray Greene, Aug 28, 2007
    #1
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  2. I saw an article some months back which suggested that vendor-specific
    qualifications had a negative correlation with salary.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 28, 2007
    #2
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  3. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    Oh well, so much for Red Hat certified training then :-(
     
    Ray Greene, Aug 28, 2007
    #3
  4. I've never bothered with it. I wouldn't trust any platform vendor to provide
    a sufficiently broad range of skills.

    What can I suggest? All I can think of is do what I did: get a University
    Comp Sci degree. Score yourself an education, not training. Training means
    knowing which buttons to press on the machines available today; education
    means knowing what those buttons do, so you can figure out which ones to
    press on the machines of tomorrow.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 28, 2007
    #4
  5. RedHat training is actually quite difficult; you have to be able to
    demonstrate mastery of a Linux environment, including fixing a broken
    system with several things (but not hardware) broken.

    RedHat certification is highly respected exactly because so much applied
    knowledge is required in order to pass the exam. No pathetic multi-choice
    questions there.
     
    Jonathan Walker, Aug 28, 2007
    #5
  6. Ray Greene

    Steve Guest

    Although I do agree on your basic comment, I think that RedHat have tried
    extremely hard to provide a certification that is actually relevant and
    worthwhile to take.

    As an aside, Computer Science grads were not popular in the industry when
    I started, as they had the wrong mindset and were rarely retrainable.
     
    Steve, Aug 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    That's a pretty common situation with university trained people in my
    experience. You can't tell them anything. Besides the person in
    question is already very competent and has several years experience,
    he mostly just needs qualifications to get a foot in the door for job
    interviews.
     
    Ray Greene, Aug 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Ray Greene

    Murray Symon Guest

    BTW, have you got your RedHat certification yet?
     
    Murray Symon, Aug 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Maybe you need to be a graduate yourself to speak their language. I brought
    in one to help on some work for a client, and it worked out so well the
    client has given him a permanent job.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 29, 2007
    #9
  10. Ray Greene

    Steve Guest

    As an old fart who's stayed technical, I will *always* listen to someone
    who has a few years experience. It will get you to an interview when I'm
    on the other side of the table. Personally, I'm so sick of people who call
    themselves programmers but have no analytical skills whatsoever, minimal
    grasp of an api and think themselves gods because of it. And no ambition
    to be anything else.

    You can't fake enthusiasm. Only in the interview does it come through.
    With a decent interviewer, of course.

    Oh, and the lies on your CV will trip you up, too. I once has a CV put in
    front of me: I was in the UK at the time. Looked really good, but the
    person has worked all over europe. This was a year or so after the .com
    bubble burst, so most of the companies on his CV no longer existed.
    Problem was, I was sys admin no one of those companies, and my partner sys
    support for another. And we'd never heard of him. I think he gave up
    trying to work freelance after that point, because nobody would touch him.

    The problem with online qualifications ( like brainbench - are they still
    going ) is that it's so easy to cheat. To be honest, I reckon that if you
    know how to cheat, then you are halfway to actually being productive. It's
    like being a lawyer in some respects: you don;t need to know how to do
    something, you need to know that it can be done, and where to look to find
    out. This is where the RedHat qualification really shone - the labtime,
    and problems that needed solving proved you did know what you were
    talking about. But at what ( financial ) cost???

    Unfortunately, I'm not hiring at the moment. But if I was, I'd be asking
    for CV's like your mates.
     
    Steve, Aug 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    That's where this guy shines. His analytical skills are way better
    than mine, I feel embarrassed discussing code with him sometimes :)
    MCSE was like that a few years ago when I did mine. We mostly just
    memorised the answers to the exam questions. I understand it's a bit
    tougher now.
    Good to know there's still people out there who want skills and not
    just bits of paper.
     
    Ray Greene, Aug 29, 2007
    #11
  12. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    Obviously they're not all bad, I'm sure the majority are quite
    competent. There are a lot of idiots out there with degrees though. As
    for speaking their language you're quite right, a common defence
    mechanism for them is to resort to spouting techno-babble until the
    other person just gives up. It's noticeable because they are generally
    quite intelligible up until the point where they start feeling
    threatened.

    It's not so much their skill level but their attitude. They can't
    believe they don't know everything and refuse to ask for help when
    they need it.
     
    Ray Greene, Aug 29, 2007
    #12
  13. No. I have done nothing other than buy the book - so far.
     
    Jonathan Walker, Aug 29, 2007
    #13
  14. Ray Greene

    Murray Symon Guest

    Is it version specific, i.e. covering the latest RHEL 5?
     
    Murray Symon, Aug 30, 2007
    #14
  15. Yes - the certification is version specific. The book I have is actually
    for RHEL 3. :eek:|

    So, basically I'll be needing to buy another book and do much more reading
    if I'm to use it as a basis for seeing if It is financially worth while
    going on the block course and thence the RH302 exam.

    I may go for the lower RH qual first off. These days it more a question of
    time, and actually the stuff I'm using at home hasn't broken down on me.
    Perhaps I should deliberately break something. ;o)
     
    Jonathan Walker, Aug 30, 2007
    #15
  16. Sounds like he could really benefit from a University degree. Give him some
    tools he can use with those skills.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 31, 2007
    #16
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