Novell Announces Agreement to Acquire Leading Enterprise Linux Technology Company SUSE LINUX

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mutley, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. Mutley

    Mutley Guest

    Mutley, Nov 4, 2003
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  2. Mutley

    techie Guest

    techie, Nov 4, 2003
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  3. Mutley

    AD. Guest

    AD., Nov 4, 2003
  4. Mutley

    harry Guest

    harry, Nov 4, 2003
  5. Mutley

    steve Guest

    Mutley allegedly said:

    They are still there.....and must have enough money around to acquire SuSE.

    With Red Hat climbing up the ladder into IBM-Enterprise land and leaving
    "Fedora" behind as the cutting edge 'farm team', this could be a good move
    for SuSE and for Novell.....and for for small to medium businesses
    especially looking for Linux solutions.
    steve, Nov 4, 2003
  6. Mutley

    steve Guest

    AD. allegedly said:
    Not an easy call. Anything you port to Windows can be subverted by Microsoft
    - leaving you with a support headache and customers with sabotaged software
    that won't work from time to time after applying MS patches.

    Any former DR DOS or OS/2 user knows all too well how Microsoft uses it's
    updates to destroy compatibility with competing products.

    Better to say to customers: "you want mail? You want Internet? You want an
    office suite? Who cares what the OS is? Go Open Source."
    steve, Nov 4, 2003
  7. Mutley

    Enkidu Guest

    Enkidu, Nov 4, 2003
  8. Mutley

    Enkidu Guest

    ....except that mo one in their right mind would trust anything with
    the Novell badge on it. Imagine! They might try to port Groupwise to


    Enkidu, Nov 4, 2003
  9. Mutley

    steve Guest

    Enkidu allegedly said:
    I've never used Groupwise.....though I'm pretty sure you have. :)

    Evolution would be a better bet.
    steve, Nov 4, 2003
  10. Mutley

    Mainlander Guest

    Lots of sysadmins are very happy with Netware. They don't listen to pro
    MS fud from the likes of you
    Mainlander, Nov 4, 2003
  11. Mutley

    Enkidu Guest

    Listen, pro-MS fud indeed! I've used Groupwise and Novell so I'm
    talking from experience! I'd say that Novell Netware probably is a
    sysadmins dream. It certainly isn't a user's dream and Groupwise has
    to be the worst groupware product ever!


    Enkidu, Nov 4, 2003
  12. Michael Newbery, Nov 5, 2003
  13. Mutley

    steve Guest

    Enkidu allegedly said:
    Dunford walked right into that one.
    steve, Nov 5, 2003
  14. Mutley

    Enkidu Guest

    Tell me it's a joke!! I still wake up in a cold sweat when I dream
    about the day that it decided I wanted hundreds of copies of the same
    invalid entry in my address book! Or the day that it started a
    mailstorm and brought down the Australian Internet gateway! Or the day
    that it decided to turn all my emails into Greek! (or something. Maybe
    it was Klingon or Elvish, I dunno).

    A contact at a certain telco told me that they were changing to
    Groupwise. Sure enough, I started to receive scrambled emails from
    him. It also forwarded one of his emails to everyone in his address

    Normally I'd blame the user, but having seen what Groupwise can
    achieve totally on its own account, I'm inclinded to give him the
    benefit of the doubt.


    Enkidu, Nov 5, 2003
  15. Mutley

    Andy Simpson Guest

    And have you actually used or administered a GroupWise system since version

    Yes end users have always hated the GroupWise Client (I myself did to)

    But that all changed with 6.5 which has a new Client that is comparable to
    Outlook 2000. I upgraded my organisation to 6.5 recently, and the end users
    love the new client.

    As for the 'worst groupware product ever'

    GroupWise is in third place in terms of worldwide usage behind Exchange &
    Notes (respectively) and many Exchange 5.5 sites have migrated to GroupWise
    because of licencing costs associated with newer versions of Exchange.

    If GroupWise is so shit, then why is Microsoft still ripping features off
    GroupWise. When Novell released GroupWise 6.0 in 2001 including a new mode
    for remote users called 'caching mode' it was also positioned as a method to
    fit more users onto a single mail server.

    Microsoft released a whitepaper slagging it off as an 'undesirable feature'.
    Now with Exchange & Outlook 2003 Microsoft are going "gee look, we have this
    new 'caching mode' " which they are also stating as a means to fit more
    users onto a single Exchange Server.

    In Outlook 2003 they have also ripped off Search Folders (which every
    version of GroupWise since 5.0, circa 1996! has had) and operating remotely
    over SSL without the need for a VPN (OK, to be fair, GroupWise 6.5 only came
    out 8 months prior to Exchange 2003)

    Yes GroupWise trialed Exchange by a long way for User Mailbox Restrictions &
    Extend-SMTP (but NT4 trialed NetWare for Disk Quotas! and only just now can
    you undelete network files with Windows Server 2003)

    GroupWise has always led Exchange in terms of Web Access functionality as
    well. I'm sure that part of this strategy has been because Microsoft wanted
    to sell as many Outlook licences as possible. Exchange 2003 may finally have
    moved ahead, but unless you are using IE, then how well are all those active
    X controls going to run on a non-microsoft browser running on a
    non-microsoft platform.

    And with GroupWise, our organisation has NEVER suffered an outage due to an
    email based virus attack.

    Novell are now working on a version of the GroupWise backend for Linux, and
    a GroupWise connector for Evolution.
    Andy Simpson, Nov 5, 2003
  16. Mutley

    Enkidu Guest

    No, I stopped at 4. But from what I hear it has not improved.
    But NOT because it is so much better. In fact it is not.
    Why shouldn't they? One or two good ideas don't make a good product.
    Oh, you mean like synchronisation in Lotus Notes?
    OWA works quite happily on Opera and on Mozilla.
    Maybe, but Groupwise is perfectly capable of screwing itself up. It
    was (V4) quite capable of filling an address book with hundreds of
    corrupt entries. It was quite capable of sending emails to the wrong
    people. It is quite capable of showing you someone else's email. It
    was quite capable of causing mailstorms. It is quite capable of losing
    emails, even when stored safely, it was quite capable of letting you
    delete an email, and then have it reappear when you restarted and it
    was definitely capable of causing a machine to crash. All these things
    happened to me. Frequently. And others that I've mercifully forgotten.
    It was a daily trauma.

    When we got to use Lotus Notes it was a great relief, though Notes
    would not be my choice.
    Good luck to them. They will need it.

    {Please reply, but I'll stop here. We'll soon start to revisit old
    ground. Let's agree to disagree?}


    Enkidu, Nov 5, 2003
  17. Mutley

    Enkidu Guest

    Just coincidentally read (in a MS newsgroup admittedly) of an
    organisation that had their NDS trashed by a virus. Poster was a NDS


    Enkidu, Nov 5, 2003
  18. Mutley

    Andy Simpson Guest

    That is just like saying that Exchange Server 2003 is shit just because
    Microsoft Mail Server was (which it was back then), hello we are talking we
    are talking almost 7 years difference in development.

    Version 4 as you know was the first 'Novell' version of GroupWise after they
    acquired it from Word Perfect Corp (OK, I won't go there : )
    Given a personal choice between Outlook 2003 & GroupWise 6.5, of course I
    would agree that the Outlook Client is a lot more feature rich & that
    Exchange Server is a significantly better platform for development &
    third-party development.

    But isn't the primary purpose of a mail system to do messaging? Do you think
    all the people @ Ford Motor Company or @ Compaq were wondering 'Gee Exchange
    is a great development platform' when most of their Exchange Infrastructure
    was down for over 24 hours as a result of Love Bug and the rest of these
    email viruses. (Ford did take most of their infrastructure down voluntarily
    to avoid further infection, but an outage is still an outage).

    Sure you block attachments & disable VBScripting & Outlook to stop all this,
    but then Exchange & Outlook aren't quite as 'feature rich' then are they if
    you have to disable these things to stop virus infection.
    Agreed. Point Taken.
    No I do not mean sychronisation like Lotus Notes, Caching mode operates
    completely transparently to the user in the background. Before that
    GroupWise had Remote Mode which operated in a 'semi-automatic' fashion
    making it more similar to Notes' Synchronisation.
    Premium mode of OWA (as opposed to Basic Mode) under Exchange Server 2003
    does not work at all under Mozila 1.5 OR Opera 7.21 -a fact I tested this

    Yes I am sure they will probably work fine with OWA 2000 or 5.5
    V4 was a long time ago, although I do agree that generally if you have a bad
    experience with a product, you generally don't want to go near it ever again
    no matter how much other people say that later versions have improved. A bit
    like me with ARCserve really -although in ARCserves case it's in reverse : )
    a good product getting shittier & shittier.
    Yes they will, they are betting the whole survival of their company on
    Linux, past history may not support my argument, but I think they will

    After all, isn't that what Microsoft wants everyone to believe? You better
    go with us because we are going to kill all the competition and then you
    will be stuck with costly migrations to our products anyway?

    Microsoft products generally are good. I don't disagree that a well setup &
    administered Exchange System will run with five nines uptime, but then again
    so will a GroupWise system or a Notes System.

    Anyway it comes down to more then just technology, it comes down to choice.
    If no one had a problem paying Microsoft's licence fees, then I think
    everyone would be using their products, but Microsoft don't believe people
    should have a choice. They talk about ABM's ('That guy is an Anything But
    Microsoft'), but they are all NBM's (Nothing But Microsoft).

    For the record my preferred Desktop OS platform is Windows 2000 / XP, my
    preferred browser is Internet Explorer and my preferred Office Suite is 2000
    / XP.

    This is where Microsoft get 80% of their revenues from, but that isn't
    enough. Their business strategy is simple.

    Andy Simpson, Nov 6, 2003
  19. Mutley

    Andy Simpson Guest

    Andy Simpson, Nov 6, 2003
  20. Mutley

    Andy Simpson Guest

    It was probably NDS which was based on the RECMAN database, a simple but
    primitive Fixed Length Record Manager. The last version of NetWare to use
    the RECMAN database (NDS versions 7 and earlier) was 5.0

    NetWare versions 5.1 & later have used eDirectory which uses a highly
    scalable indexed database with full roll-forward & roll-back transaction

    Novell have scaled eDirectory to over a billion objects, each with thousands
    of attributes.
    Andy Simpson, Nov 6, 2003
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