(not George Preddy) What is really wrong with Sigmas?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Gene Palmiter, Jun 13, 2004.

  1. I just read the review of the Sigma 10 at www.dpreview.com and I would like
    to know what is really wrong with it compared to other cameras in it's
    class. It's not as good, photo quality wise, as 10 mp cameras...but it
    measures up well against 6 mp cameras. It's not too dear at under $1500. If
    you have glass it might be best to stay with what you have...if not...why
    not the Sigma?
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jun 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. Maybe it has to do with the fact it's the World's most expensive 3.43
    Megapixel camera around?
     
    Darrell Larose, Jun 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. OK, I have a Sigma SD9. While I am quite happy with it, there are some
    shortcomings.

    1. It shoots only RAW. No jpegs to quickly download and use. You must
    process through a computer using the excellent supplied software to crate
    useable TIFF images.

    2. No popup flash. While some may put down this feature as amateur's
    feature, I say a little flash fill is often a good idea, and an emergency
    flash is always nice to have.

    3. Colors can be a bit off. Usually nothing that cannot be touched up in PS,
    but sometimes flesh tones get a yellow cast. I found a PS plug-in that helps
    this. Not a good camera if you need to get a company logo spot on while
    clothing color is spot on while the model's face is spot on. For most of us
    though, the camera works well, with an occasional PS touch up.

    4. There were battery issues, although these seem to be fading away.

    5. It is a bit large and clunky, although it handles well in my opinion.
    Most all of these DSLRs are surprisingly large. Considering the fact that
    the industry can make really small digital P&S cameras, can't they cut down
    o the reflex size substantially?

    There are strenghts. I use only prime lenses, and I consider the image
    quality excellent. I think I am fussy, having used 6X7 MF equipment (as
    well as 35mm) in the past. It has a dust cover for the sensor.

    Other characteristics you can read about in, say dpreview.

    Good luck
     
    Dick Frederick, Jun 13, 2004
    #3
  4. That would be an issue if the photo quality was only as good as other 3.43
    mp photos. As I posted...from the results of test that I have
    reviewed....the photos compare well to 6 mp cameras. I like a good piece of
    machinery in my hand as I use all day everyday...but its not the machine
    that really matters...it's the results. If someone builds a 1 mp camera that
    has the quality of 4x5 sheet film...I am not going to care about how they
    got there. Is the Sigma 10 overpriced compared to other DSLR 6 mp cameras?
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jun 13, 2004
    #4
  5. Could be an issue during a long day of shooting and I run out of chip space.
    On the other hand...I am really more concerned with quality...and that is
    the way to get it. I would like to get the Kodak SLR/N but users are having
    trouble with image quality...and for $5k that would bum me out big time (as
    the kids used to say!) In truth...I won't get a camera that is only 50%
    sharper than my 4mp....but I am rethinking all my ideas...something that has
    to be done every once in a while when dealing with hi-tech.

    OK...a real downer. As a photojournalist I sometimes have a chance to get my
    main flash out...but sometimes I don't and the built-in comes in handy for
    fill flash.
    Could be an issue.

    Yes...the SD9 had that stupid 2 battery system.
    Not an issue...most cameras are too small for my hands.
    Been there...I wanted to see an independant review....and having read it
    .....it didn't seem so bad.
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jun 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Gene Palmiter

    Skip M Guest

    It does measure up well to 6mp DSLRs, and is priced similarly to them. For
    me, if I didn't already have Canon lenses, the idea that I can buy lenses
    from any of 5 manufacturers (including Sigma) if I buy a Canon, Nikon,
    Pentax or the upcoming Minolta DSLRs as opposed to only being able to buy
    Sigma lenses with the Sigma DSLR would be the deciding factor. Sigma does
    not offer lenses in a couple of focal length/aperture combinations, most
    importantly a 50mm f1.4 or 1.8 or a lens in the 80-100mm range with an
    aperture faster than 2.8.
    Besides that, the Sigma does have some color reproduction problems, and
    there are persistent rumors that they may exit the SLR body market
    altogether. They are supplying Kodak with the bodies for the DCS Pro 14/c,
    so I don't know which way they're going to jump on that last.
     
    Skip M, Jun 13, 2004
    #6
  7. You only have to look at the photos posted on PBase to see examples of
    how good the Sigma cameras are. You won't find many in this newsgroup
    who will agree - in fact there are more than a few who exhibit an
    obsessive hatred for the Sigmas. Sadly, this is not the place for
    objective opinions on Sigma cameras.

    The truth is in the output. The Foveon sensor, while only 3.4 MP, can
    output images on a par or exceeding 6 MP Bayer sensor cameras. There
    are color issues but that is nothing that cannot easily be overcome
    with the excellent Sigma Photo Pro software. Adobe PhotoShop CS has a
    raw converter for Sigma's X3F files so, if desired, you would not have
    to use Sigma Photo Pro to convert the images.

    Peruse through the posting on the Sigma forum at www.dpreview.com and
    you'll find intelligent discussions as to the pros and cons of the
    Sigma SDx cameras.
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, Jun 13, 2004
    #7
  8. I wonder if its not just an excessive hatred for GP?
    I have been there ...didn't take long. Just from the postings I would have
    to guess that Sigma is not getting much of a market share.
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jun 13, 2004
    #8
  9. Gene Palmiter

    Tom Scales Guest

    Personally, I think GP is overshadowing the camera with his, uh, musings.

    I believe that the quality of the output is great than the 3.4mp would
    imply, but do believe there are color issues and the inability to save
    anything but raw is limiting.

    For me, it comes down to longevity. The same reason I didn't consider an
    Olympus E-1, even though I am a huge OM fan and own and E-20. In 5 years,
    I'm confortable that Canon and Nikon will still be in the DSLR game with a
    reasonably compatible product.

    Can't say I have that confidence about Sigma or Olympus.

    Tom
     
    Tom Scales, Jun 13, 2004
    #9
  10. In defense of the E-10...I never intended mine to last forever. It has done
    well as my "daily driver" and has earned its keep. Only complaints is the
    lack of extreme wide angle, fly by wire focusing, and the auto focus that
    will focus on the wall between two people instead of the people....you would
    think it would be able to figure that one out! If it takes me another 2
    years to find just the right camera to replace the E-10...that is fine. It
    is still working and 4 mp is enough for what I get paid for.

    If I get the arts grant I am trying for ($5k) I would rather get the Epson
    9600 printer than a new camera. The printer will make the money for the
    camera faster than the camera will make the money for the printer. If the
    Oly was so bad that would have to be reversed.
     
    Gene Palmiter, Jun 13, 2004
    #10
  11. Ever handled or used a Sigma product? They're "cheap" and built to
    stay that way. And if you like yellow/orange-ish skin tones, it might
    just be the system for you.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Jun 13, 2004
    #11
  12. Gene Palmiter

    Jeff Durham Guest

    When I read the review on dpreview, it sounded like the Sigma had some
    interesting technical capabilities, but overall, the camera fell short of
    the competition for many reasons. I have been looking at DSLRs for a year
    now and finally decided on the Canon Rebel. It just made the most sense for
    what I wanted. Cost was only a small factor in the decision.

    Jeff
     
    Jeff Durham, Jun 13, 2004
    #12
  13. A hatred for George doesn't justify someone becoming so obsessed that
    he creates a misleading website for the SD10 and becomes a troll in
    this newsgroup.
    Neither does Rolls Royce, but they produce some fine cars.
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, Jun 13, 2004
    #13
  14. Gene Palmiter

    Guest Guest

    feel free to list the parts that are misleading, citing sources
    indicating they are incorrect.
     
    Guest, Jun 13, 2004
    #14
  15. Yes you are correct, it's tool that depends on the man behind it,
    unfortunately the self-proclaimed "expert" on all things Sigma/Foveon will
    lead you to believe it's the only DSLR that works, odd because there is no
    proof GP has ever owned a camera. The Sigma locks you into a proprietary
    lensmount, whereas Pentax, Nikon, Fuji S2/S3 (Nikon mount), Canon, soon
    Minolta do not. In fact the Pentax *istD (odd name) will allow you to use
    almost every Pentax lens ever made. Here in Ottawa the major camera shop
    will rent Nikon D1X, D2H, D100, D70 and Canon 300D, 10D, and 1Dmk.II, if you
    can do that where you live it gives you hands-on without the huge cash
    outlay until you see what works for you.
     
    Darrell Larose, Jun 13, 2004
    #15
  16. Hello Gene. (I'm not George Preddy either) Plain and simple, the Sigma
    SD10 is the best overall DSLR on the market today. You cannot go wrong
    with this camera. Don't listen to the Canon loving trolls.

    For about $2000, you can buy a really nice Sigma SD10 DSLR with an
    external flash and a high-end zoom lens. The photo quality you will
    get will be unbeatable by any other current production digital camera.
    The Sigma Pro DSLR cameras are built like tanks, and they are a real
    "man's camera".

    Hope this helps.

    -Orville
     
    Orville Wright, Jun 13, 2004
    #16
  17. Gene Palmiter

    MarkH Guest

    Let’s say you have no lenses so you buy the Sigma SD10 and a couple of
    lenses. Then you buy another lens, then another one. Then you sell on of
    your cheaper lenses and replace it with a better quality one.

    Here’s the problem: You have built up an expensive collection of SA mount
    lenses, how sure are you that the next camera will use the SA mount? If
    you are going to buy into a system you have several choices: Canon, Nikon,
    Pentax, four thirds, Minolta (soon at least), Sigma. If you try to take
    your best guess at which one will suit the D-SLR you buy in 3 - 5 years
    then for most of us the Sigma is not the most likely.

    Also when you look at what brands of lenses are available for each mount
    you find the following:

    Canon EF Mount:
    Canon, Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, others not worth mentioning

    Nikon F Mount:
    Nikon, Sigma, Tokina, Tamron, others not worth mentioning

    Sigma SA Mount:
    Sigma

    Then you look at second hand lenses available and find that the majority
    are in either Canon or Nikon mount.


    The more I look into this the more glad I am that I bought a Canon 10D,
    though if I were buying today (and had no lenses) I would look closely at
    the Canon 10D Vs Nikon D70.
     
    MarkH, Jun 13, 2004
    #17
  18. Gene Palmiter

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that (Orville Wright)
    stated that:
    You're a liar.
     
    Lionel, Jun 13, 2004
    #18
  19. Wrong again, whatever your real name is. Sigma has never made a piece
    of equipment worthy of serious consideration by anybody who cares about
    the images they create. You *will* go wrong with Sigma unless you like
    yellow/orangish skin tones, proprietary lens mounts, RAW only image
    capture - and don't mind wasting a lot of money on a #.4MP camera.
    For half that, the Digital Rebel of the D70 will smoke it.

    Hope this helps...
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Jun 13, 2004
    #19
  20. Gene Palmiter

    Andrew Guest

    George does not troll and just offers his own view. People are free to
    offer their own views, but the vitriolic bullying way in which the
    vocal ones do so has meant most of them are in my killfile and I have
    no problem with Georges posts.
     
    Andrew, Jun 13, 2004
    #20
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