Normal temperature for seagate 7200rpm HDDs?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Squiggle, Dec 28, 2008.

  1. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Time for the annual strip down and cleanup of the PC has rolled around
    once again with summer being upon us.
    So having stripped the PC to bare bones, and cleaned all the heatsinks
    and lubed fans etc I have been having a play with the cooling setup.
    Currently trying running 3 fans at 7volts, as opposed to 2 at 12v to
    keep the noise down.

    However, even with two fans blowing air out of the case in front of the
    seagate drive in the bottom of the case, I can't seem to get the
    temperature of that drive below 45*C. Its a 320GB seagate SATA drive.
    The other older 7200rpm seagate drive mounted higher up in the case with
    no fans blowing on it is running at a satisfactory 36*C. Just wondering
    whether the higher temperature is typical of the larger capacity drives?
     
    Squiggle, Dec 28, 2008
    #1
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  2. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Found the problem, Speedfan isn't consistent with its drive
    identification, what appears as HD0 on the SMART tab isn't the same
    drive as HD0 on the temperature monitoring tab. Couldn't see how two
    fans were failing to keep the temp down on it.
     
    Squiggle, Dec 28, 2008
    #2
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  3. Squiggle

    impossible Guest

     
    impossible, Dec 28, 2008
    #3
  4. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Squiggle" typed:
    Good that you've got it sorted.

    45º is a bit on the warm side. Seagate spec the operating temp of their
    desktop drives as 0 - 50º and if they go above 50, even for a second, it's
    forever recorded in their SMART data and is grounds for a warranty refusal.

    36º is fine, I like to keep my desktop drives between 25 and 35 ideally (but
    then again I like to be in control of as many parameters as I can). I've
    been told that I shouldn't be concerned about a minimum temp but, the way I
    see it, with various metals in the construction (spindle / housing) with
    differing expansion coefficients and 'fluid bearings' there's a distinct
    possibility that running too cold could present nearly as much trouble as
    running too hot.

    (I went a bit OTT with the HDD cooling with my desktop machine and don't
    live in a heated home. Consequently I was seeing operating temps as low as
    17º in winter [ambient + 3º] so I invested in a fan controller to slow the
    fans down and let the temps go up a bit.)

    I'm a big fan of Hard Disk Sentinel as it gives so much info. Then again, as
    I said, I'm an info junkie.

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 28, 2008
    #4
  5. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "ofn01" typed:
    What make / model is the external drive and what app do you use to read its
    temp?
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 28, 2008
    #5
  6. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Grounds for warranty refusal? is this confirmed or just anecdotal?
    The older drive (out of warranty) has a recorded 62 degree max, and the
    newer 7200.10 has a recorded 52 degree max in the SMART parameters. If
    you can confirm that alone would be grounds for a warranty refusal then
    my next hard drive cooling experiment can go ahead. I plan on throwing
    the drives in the mill at the workshop and machining the sides flat to
    give a better conduction into the mounting, then mounting them in a
    custom bracket made from ali heatsink extrusion with a single fan
    blowing through the middle. That should keep them extremely cool with a
    12v fan, or cool enough to stay happy with a near silent 7v fan.
    I would think that the spindle would be all that big, so the minute
    amount of expansion shouldn't be a problem. I'm not worried about
    keeping them super cool, i'm far more interested in the super quiet side
    of things. The next PC will likely end up with two 120+mm fans inside
    the case and fibreglass ducting to get the air flowing where I want it.
    Heh, i just pop the molex pins out of the connector and move the one
    thats normally in the GND position to the +5 position,, and voila,
    instant 7V operation. Nice and quiet.
    I will google that one now.

    Regards

    Squigs.
     
    Squiggle, Dec 28, 2008
    #6
  7. Squiggle

    impossible Guest

    You need the data specifications for your model, which Seagate makes
    available to anyone. For example:

    http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_barracuda_7200_10.pdf

    If your model is there, than 60 degrees is the upper bound of the temp
    range, not 50.
    A lot of sites that shill for so-called "hard drive monitor" software try to
    convince you that they can interpret the SMART data intelligently.
    Unfortunately, this is almost never the case, since drive manufacturers use
    proprietary schemes for setting the operational parameters. For example, in
    one scheme, that "max" temperature you're seeing could be the "max"
    temperature spec, while in another schme it could be 100 degrees minus the
    current temperature. Do you know which it is in your case? No, of course
    not. If you have a Seagate drive, then you should periodicallly run
    Seagate's free Seatools utility, which is the only reliable means of telling
    whether your drive is in imminent danger of failing. For warranty claims,
    Seagate applies a simple pass-fail standard -- if SMART records a failure
    state, and the drive is under warranty, then you'll get a replacement --
    when and under what circumstances the "max' temperature was recorded is
    irrelevant so long as there is no obvious physical evidence of abuse -- a
    fire, for example, or..... OH MY
    GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................
    Are you kidding me with this?!!! Don't expect to ever see a warranty claim
    accepted.
    To avoid premature drive failure, keep a reasonable air flow in your
    machine, including around the drive .If you're regularly seeing drive temps
    near or above 50, that's would be a sign that your airflow is poor. But I
    wouldn't obsess over this. After all, the drive specs define the tested
    operating range -- so long as you're running below 60 (or whatever your
    actual temp spec is) at all times, then your drive will be perfectly fine.
     
    impossible, Dec 28, 2008
    #7
  8. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Comprehension is not your strong point is it. If the warranty is already
    void due to the temperature I will throw them in the mill.
     
    Squiggle, Dec 28, 2008
    #8
  9. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Squiggle" typed:
    Anecdotal. Heard on a hardware forum.

    My current desktop has 9 x 5 1/4 bays. I have the fan controler in the top,
    then an optical drive and an optical drive in the bottom (to create a
    'zone'). I had five SATA drives mounted between them using rails and two
    12cm fans blowing over them (perforated front). It worked like a charm.
    "Shouldn't" ain't good enough for me. ;-)
    Similar to my set up, minus the ducting.

    Mother of God! What sort of low-tech pleb do you take me for? <g>

    I have done that in the past but prefered the legance of a variable speed
    controller in this case.

    I used one of these:
    http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=360302

    Not too expensive and works a treat.
    I wouldn't run a PC without it. On installing it on my laptop I saw my new
    HDD was hitting 49º (Seagate 2.5" drives are specced 0 - 60º) so used
    Notebook hardware Control to switch the fan on sooner and blocked an inlet
    or two on the bottom of the case so more air was forced to flow past the
    HDD.

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 28, 2008
    #9
  10. Squiggle

    impossible Guest

    Didn't read what I said, did you? Just because some loopy piece of software
    you have thinks it read an excessive drive temperature flag at some point in
    time doesn't make it so. Did you even bother to follow the link I posted so
    you could look up the real Seagate spec for your exact model? No, of course
    not. So you still haven't got a clue what your talking about.

    Fact is, so long as your drive was purchased within the time limit of the
    warranty, it remains under warranty in Seagate's view. The only thing that
    could void that warranty is the kind of wanton heat/shock/vibration abuse
    that would result from running the drive under a milling machine. I mean,
    seriously: WTF were you thinking?!!!!

    If/when a Seagate drive fails under normal operating conditions, as verified
    by Seatools, then you can cash in a warranty claim -- no matter what rumor
    you heard. Now be a good boy and say you're sorry, you miserable wanker.
     
    impossible, Dec 28, 2008
    #10
  11. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "ofn01" typed:
    Ahh, OK. I'm using an el-cheapo USB/eSATA SATA dock via USB on my laptop.
    (Have been considering a PC card eSATA device, don't know if there's any
    point. Anyone know the data throughput rate for PC Cards?) HDS doesn't get
    anything via USB (Unknown HDD of correct size) and, when I tried it via my
    JMicron eSATA connector on my desktop HDS reported the same. I might have to
    download Everest I guess. However, you said it gets info via eSATA, I'm
    using via USB on the ThinkPad. The Heavy Iron is hardly ever used.
    Mmmm. It'd be nice to get the level of detail HDS gives on internal drives
    on my external drives....

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 29, 2008
    #11
  12. Squiggle

    Richard Guest

    I got a dirt cheap dual port esata expresscard off dealextreme to use on
    my laptop with the external since USB was too slow. Works a treat and
    cost next to nothing...

    Just need to find me a port multiplier equipped external case thats not
    a large fortune now...
     
    Richard, Dec 30, 2008
    #12
  13. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Richard" typed:
    That's something I've considered. My externaal 2.5" SATA 'docks' support
    eSATA....

    Dealextreme?

    I wonder if my ThinkPad would add it (eSATA) to it's list of bootable
    devices once installed....
    Sorry, I read the words but they don't mean anything definitive to me in
    that combination. (It could be the hour, I'm not a morning person. The brain
    is slow to start but hard to stop at night.) Are you talking about running
    multiple external 3.5" SATA drives? If so I don't see the point in running a
    laptop. You need something like my desktop with 6 x SATA connectors, 2 x
    eSATA connectors and an IDE channel. It'll take a Celeron 420 / 1.6GHz CPU
    if you want to keep the power down and would likely be cheaper than an
    "external case".

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 30, 2008
    #13
  14. Squiggle

    Richard Guest

    My PCI-E card in the desktop appears in the list like the onboard ahci
    controller does, but it has a bios on it. I dont think the expresscard
    did, and its not here at the moment to have a look. To tell you the
    truth I used it once and then sent it away with my offsite backup case
    to a relatives place so they can plug it into their laptop if I need
    files off the drive for some reason.
    Yeah, but not as accessable or portable as an offsite backup like a
    small case with 3 or 4 esata drives in it is.

    Sure, the overall speed will be lower with them all on the one 300 meg
    channel then seperate ones, but even on seperate channels I dont see
    anywhere near that as a write speed..
     
    Richard, Dec 31, 2008
    #14
  15. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs "Richard" typed:
    Found them. Did you get it shipped to NZ? Did it cost much?

    Ahh, OK. With the ThinkPad I hit F12 during bootup and it scans the machine,
    then presents me with a list of attached storage that it discovered that
    might be bootable. Must see if DSE have one I can test, then take back. <g>

    Oh, while talking about DSE; Yesteday I took in a Logitech cordless mouse
    (and reciept) that I bought in June that had started playing up. I was lucky
    enough to get the branch manager on the till and she punched asked what was
    wrong, checked the screen and told me that she'd get one out of stock and
    replace it on the spot! I was amazed (and pleased). She told me that they
    can only do that with certain items and the returned one is smashed with a
    hammer and binned. I laughed and she said, no, it's true. One staff member
    smashes it in the presence of another and the both sign a 'certified
    destroyed' form.

    I was pleased to get a new one so soon.
    Good point.
    Is eSATA up to 300 meg? I thought it still ran at 150 meg / SATA I speed.

    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 31, 2008
    #15
  16. Squiggle

    Richard Guest

    It cost what the site said it cost, plus the costs of international
    conversion on the card - came to about $20 when I got it.
    Yeah, the replacent stratigy on some things like that where all the
    costs is in the design and hardly anything in hardware is often to do
    that. Makes sense too since its only a few cents of plastic and the
    circuit that is probably a write off anyway.
    No, its been at 300 for quite some time now. Actually I dont know if the
    card I got is even 300 meg or port multiplier capable.
     
    Richard, Dec 31, 2008
    #16
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