no wonder localshops are dying

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by hugo drax, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. hugo drax

    Don Coon Guest


    I will say this, Dan.

    First, I don't think you've been wasting anybody's time and think you've
    tried to present a balanced opinion.

    But, the days of the full service photo shop are dwindling the same as most
    other full-service businesses whether we like it or not. There's no way to
    hold back the tide. They're going the way of full-service gas stations,
    custom tailored suits, and any other labor intensive enterprise. People
    either don't want to pay extra for full-service or have found alternate
    sources for the services or information.

    In my opinion, most full-service advisors know less than the knowledge one
    can easily attain from the internet. Today's "experts" unfortunately are
    the Best Buy know-enough-to-snow clerks that prey on innocent technology
    buyers. I can seldom trust any of them and have fun revealing the errors
    in their BS much to their indignation : )

    So give it up; full-service is dying except for those willing to pay through
    the nose for it.

    Cheers
     
    Don Coon, Dec 25, 2003
    #61
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  2. hugo drax

    Bob Salomon Guest

    Apparently you don't buy your gas in NJ.

    Too bad, we onlyPremium is $1.69.

    How much is pump-it-yourself where you are?
     
    Bob Salomon, Dec 25, 2003
    #62
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  3. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    I'm just lookin for the local store to get the sale because they were only a
    little more than the on-line retailers IF they're worth it!

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 25, 2003
    #63
  4. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    I will often try out a product at a local store, and give the local store
    a chance to make the sale. I will ask them to match the internet price.
    If they won't do that, then I will ask them if they can sell it at 5% above.
    If it is a low priced item, I may even pay 10% above. Perhaps the best
    solution to this issue is for stores to charge for demos! As it stands
    now, many stores refuse to give demos. One high priced camera store
    refused to give me a demo.(I guess I don't look like the kind of sucker
    who pays full list price for things).The salesman said I wouldn't buy the
    camera.I said I might. Then he said that I wouldn't buy it there. My
    response was that it depends how willing he is to negotiate the price.
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #64
  5. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    Many small shops also try to sell the demo model as new. Paying full
    retail price for a demo model is totally crazy!

     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #65
  6. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    Whose price?

    B&H?
    For example?
    Yeah, that's gonna fly.
    Who quoted you list price?

    What was it and what was the price?
    Has this salesman demo'd lots of equiptment for you and you've never bought
    anything?
    Then negotiate the price first.

    Sound fair?

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #66
  7. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    So you like paying a higher price to get a worn book with coffee stains rather
    than buying a new one? Bookstores should at the very least have extra
    copies of the book in the back, and sell you a fresh one, and not the worn
    coffee stained one on the shelf.
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #67
  8. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    They are new.

    The warranty cards weren't filled out were they?

    The store should sell them as USED because someone looked at it?

    I've seen people tell a salesman they wanted to buy a product that was so
    new and limited in supply that the store didn't have a sample on the shelf.

    They agreed on the price and the customer asked for a demonstration, which
    the salesman gladly did.

    When the demo was over the customer said "Now get me a new camera!!!!!"

    Is that fair?
    What do ya think is "full retail price?"

    A product that costs the store $500 gets sold for $550 if they're lucky!!

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #68
  9. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    So according to you the camera stores should hire the best, most informed
    salesmen available, the salesmen should offer his time, his expertise and
    good service, and then quote the same price the lowest site on the internet
    sells it for?

    Someone sent me an email.

    He said local shops aren't dying.

    He said people who can't recognize the value of service and the cost of top
    quality salesman are KILLING them.

    He said the bosses of those people should cut their pay down to Minimum Wage
    because people just like them reduced his profits so much that Minimum Wage
    was the best he could afford to pay.
    Where do you shop for books?

    The Salvation Army?
    The markup on books is 100% or more.

    A book that sells for $20 costs the store $10 or less.

    A camera that costs the store $450 may get sold for $500.

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #69
  10. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    LOL! No. Just some bookstores that have cafes. Some of the books
    end up with coffee stains. Others are just quite worn from all the cheap
    people who read the book in the bookstore(perhaps a chapter a day?)
    and don't buy it.
    Not quite. Gross margins in retail are expressed as a percentage of the sale.
    They are not 100% unless the retailer gets the item for free. I doubt that
    margins on books are typically a full 50%.
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #70
  11. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    A demo model is not new, particularly if it has been played
    around with by many people. Some would say that once a
    camera is removed from the original packing it is no longer
    new, while others might claim that if it is just moved to a
    display case, and none of the button have been pressed
    it still qualifies as new. I wish all manufacturers would seal
    all their products with tamper proof seals. Then the consumer
    could reject all procts with a broken seal as not being new.
    Even if a camera has never been used, just the act of opening
    the box might result in lost accessories or instructions. If retailers
    want to demo cameras, they should take the hit of having a demo
    model to sell at a reduced price. When one cuts wood, it is necessary
    to make at least a bit of sawdust.
    Sell it at a reduced price as a demo model.
    The retailer should already have an open demo model. If not, then the retailer
    should be willing to create a demo model that will later be sold at a discount.
    That is part of the cost of doing business.
    Not quite. Do you think a Digital Rebel with the lens costs the dealer
    at least $900?
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #71
  12. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    Did I say I was referring to gross margins?

    I was, as I specifically stated, referring to markup.
    I said the markup was 100%.

    Which means an item's cost is doubled to arrive at the figure.
    You can doubt it all you like.

    FYI during certain promotions the profit margin may be over 50%.

    I love people who change the premise, act like they know what they're
    talking about, and then get caught with both feet in their mouth.

    How'd they taste, JK?

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #72
  13. 100% markup is the same thing as 50% margin: you sell something for twice
    what you paid for it.

    Gross profit margin is a percentage of the sale price:
    % margin = ( price - cost ) / price * 100

    Markup is a percentage of the seller's cost:
    % markup = ( price - cost ) / cost * 100

    -Mike
     
    Michael Geary, Dec 26, 2003
    #73
  14. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    I know that.

    JK was just changing the premise so it would appear HE knew what he was
    talking about.

    Obviously...
    Thanks, Mike.

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #74
  15. It seems more likely that JK simply misread what you wrote. After all, with
    "margin" and "markup" being such similar words, even someone who is familiar
    with the concepts may on occasion misread one for the other. I can't keep
    them straight before I've had some coffee. :)

    -Mike
     
    Michael Geary, Dec 26, 2003
    #75
  16. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    You're a woodpecker.

    I should have known.
    Reduced to what?

    Less than what he paid for it?
    Of what?

    Everything he sells?

    And take a loss on everyone?
    discount.

    How much of a discount?
    If the store is gonna sell based strictly on price, which is the way you
    want to buy... why should they demonstrate anything?

    You want to pay the least amount possible because a computer on the internet
    will sell it to you that way.

    Why expect more from your local store than you're gonna get from the
    computer?
    I know what it costs the dealers.

    What do YOU think it costs wholesale?

    Show me how smart you are.

    Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #76
  17. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    It will if every dealer does that. Or perhaps another idea is
    for manufacturers to open stores in many large cities.
    While the stores probably won't sell much since they
    won't be discounting the items, the manufacturer owned
    stores are a good place to get product demos. I also
    wouldn't feel guilty about demoing a product at a
    manufacturer owned store then buying elsewhere at a
    discount, as one of the main purposes of a company
    owned store is to promote their products. Any sales
    they make at full price is gravy.
    That was my first time asking for a demo there.
    LOL! I always try to separate the what to buy from the
    where to buy decision. First I try to decide what I want, then I decide
    where I will buy it. So even if I buy from the store that gave me the
    demo, it probably won't be on the same day that I got the demo.
    Tough luck for those salesmen who work on commission. Why should
    someone who demos a piece of equipment for me deserve 10% of
    the price(or even 5%?) for just a few minutes of time?
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #77
  18. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    Probably. That is part of the cost of doing business.
    If he has to.
    Whatever it takes to sell it, provided that it is being sold as a demo
    model, and not as new.
    Perhaps all stores should charge for demos, or manufacturers should have
    locations in all the major cities where items can be demoed, and product
    literature can be obtained?

    My guess is perhaps around $750 in large quantities, and perhaps as much as
    $800 in small quantities?
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #78
  19. hugo drax

    JK Guest

    Major retailers don't use term "markup". They only use the term margin.
    I have never read a quarterly report where a retailer discusssed
    their "markup" . They always talk about margins.
     
    JK, Dec 26, 2003
    #79
  20. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    JK misread nothing.

    He changed the premise.

    I wrote, "The markup on books is 100% or more."

    And JK responded with

    "Not quite. Gross margins in retail are expressed as a percentage of the
    sale.
    They are not 100% unless the retailer gets the item for free."

    I specifically said "markup."

    And JK specifically changed it to "gross margins."
    Oh, please...

    One is a percentage of the sale price and the other is a percentage of the
    seller's cost.
    Let JK tell me he doesn't know the difference between markup and gross
    profit.
    Don't sell yerself short.

    Let's see if JK can figure that one out!

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 26, 2003
    #80
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