no wonder localshops are dying

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by hugo drax, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    base price with shipping or local tax price
    -----------------------------------------------
    200mm 2.8L 820.86 870.11 [ local store]
    200mm 2.8L 629.95 643.10 [Adorama]

    227.01 price difference

    No wonder local shops are dying, local shops charge restocking just like the
    internet but the only difference with local shops is you are paying for the
    guy sitting behind the counter and the monthly rent

    the Local shop rent/employee/salesperson fee (35 percent) is 227.01. 35%
    increase vs the internet (using B&H or adorama)

    I do not mind paying a little extra for local purchases but this is the nail
    to the coffin in my book. I will order online 100% of the time.
     
    hugo drax, Dec 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. 200mm 2.8L 820.86 870.11 [ local store]
    They die, to some extent, because of the actions of people like you (oh
    yes, and probably me as well). I do value the service that some local
    shops give, and will buy from them provided the mark-up isn't too high.
    My local computer store is like that.

    I did buy my Nikon 5700 locally, but only because they had branch at the
    airport where I could buy tax-free.

    I just hope you didn't do what I loath (but sometimes do myself), go and
    spend half an hour poking and prodding the local store's demo models, and
    then buy on the Internet.....<G>

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Try bargaining. I take in the web page that shows price.
    I recently bought my 300 mm f/4 Canon L lens locally for
    $25 more than the B&H price, even though their list
    was a couple hundred more. If the salesman won't bargain,
    ask for the manager. They can deal with you or lose some
    money. Some profit is better than no profit, and tell them
    that if they won't bargain.

    Roger
     
    Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark), Dec 22, 2003
    #3
  4. hugo drax

    AFN Guest

    Of course, internet shops often have salespeople, and pay for long distance
    calls. They just seem to be more price-sensitive.

    I really wish the local shops would get with the whole pricing matching
    thing.

    The real problem though is this: went to a local shop today, trying to
    support the local company because the price was similar, and when I asked a
    question about a $350 flash the woman rudely said "here's a book; i'm busy;
    look it up". Hmmmm. She's rude. She wants me to do all my own
    research, like I would do online anyway. I had to drive there to get this
    bad service. Hmmmm. Do you think I'm going to buy there now?

    Locals have to be price competitive AND offer good service AND remember that
    people are taking their time to drive to a store when they could have just
    gone online. If the store people are rude, and they go out of business, I
    have zero sympathy. And don't just blame a random bad clerk because it all
    comes back to good management by the owner. I hope some local stores read
    this!

    But I do second the thought of the last poster: don't browse locally in a
    good shop, and then buy online. I pay more for books that I buy in a local
    bookstore, but I'm paying for the privilege of browsing/touching and that's
    fine by me.
     
    AFN, Dec 22, 2003
    #4
  5. hugo drax

    George Guest

    I was told by a local dealer in California about how "NY camera stores
    really make their money". His version (I have NO idea if this is true or
    not) is that most NY camera stores are connected to a store selling jewelry.
    He indicated that camera manufacturers give their dealers a long time to pay
    an invoice, so the camera stuff is turned around quickly at low profit to
    generate working capital for their jewelry businesses where the profits are
    far higher but the invoice payment terms aren't anywhere near as generous.
    If this is true, you'd think the camera distributors would plug this hole
    unless it would seriously damage their business...

    Now, not all local dealers are uncompetitive. For example, check out
    Adorama and B&H prices on the Nikon D100...then, check out
    www.normancamera.com in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Granted, it isn't much of a
    difference, but Norman Camera IS cheaper (and has been in business a long
    time). Also, San Jose Camera is pretty competitive with NY prices (the ones
    you can believe).
     
    George, Dec 22, 2003
    #5
  6. hugo drax

    Mxsmanic Guest

    I still buy all my camera gear in local shops.
     
    Mxsmanic, Dec 22, 2003
    #6
  7. I do not mind paying a little extra for local purchases but this is the
    nail
    Not me. I recently bought a Canon Speedlite at a local shop, fully knowing
    that I could get it for a lot less on the Net. Why? For one thing, this
    local shop has been helpful in the past. For another, the salesman got a
    camera body, two lenses and a flash off the shelves to help me pick a
    carrying case. He carefully stuffed everything into several cases to help
    me make a decision. After that, I decided to leave the store with a case
    and the flash.

    However, when I know exactly what I want then I often buy on the Net or the
    phone. I hope the walk-in stores stick around.
     
    Charles Schuler, Dec 22, 2003
    #7
  8. hugo drax

    PlaneGuy Guest

    The other thing to remember is that local stores quite often pay more for
    their stock, than a consumer can buy the same item for online. Stores such
    as B&H and adorama, would have huge order sizes, and would be able to use
    that as power to bargain down the camera companies - the local shop hasn't
    got that.

    Oh, and for all you whingers in the USA complaining about camera prices, you
    should check out camera prices in every other part of the world. For
    example, buying here in Australia, it is quite often 50% cheaper to buy from
    B&H or adorama, pay international shipping, GST (10%), and customs handling
    charges <- that isn't a 'measly 35%', and it is comparing US online stores
    to Australian online stores. The bricks and mortar places are 20% dearer.
     
    PlaneGuy, Dec 22, 2003
    #8
  9. hugo drax

    jriegle Guest

    Not everyone feels confident ordering from distant companies and will always
    will do business locally. While I have purchased numerous times from B&H,
    KEH and once, Camera World of Oregon, I will still do business with the
    locals. I try to negotiate on big tag items and they will often drop the
    price, but not quite as much as B&H.
    John
     
    jriegle, Dec 22, 2003
    #9
  10. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    Good for you.

    I wonder if David ever thought of throwing the storeowner $20 for wasting
    his time?

    You like working for free, Dave?

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 22, 2003
    #10
  11. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    What if they're a little higher?

    Say 10%?

    A small town camera store can't survive on the prices charged by a huge
    internet store.

    They pay more than the big guys and need a larger markup to pay the bills.
    It sounds like you've been there plenty and hadn't purchased anything yet.

    And ya did yer online research?

    What did ya ask her?

    Could she match a price from one of those Brooklyn internet stores?
    Match the price from a store who downloads the orders... AND spend 1/2 to
    3/4 hour going over every aspect of what you want to buy?
    With "customers" like you they will go out of business.
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 22, 2003
    #11
  12. hugo drax

    Dan Sullivan Guest

    Not true.
    This used to be the rumor back in the 70's when 47th Street Photo was on
    47th Street in the diamond district.

    Big dealers buy in enormous volumes and pay less than the little stores.

    And on top of that they need less of a markup due to their massive volume.

    Best, Dan
     
    Dan Sullivan, Dec 23, 2003
    #12
  13. hugo drax

    Henry Bibb Guest

    This one hits home for me. When I was acquiring stuff to go with my Canon
    F1,
    many of the local shops had next to no Canon gear at all. The reason was,
    Canon
    would offer such deep discounts to mega-retailers that the big stores were
    selling
    the stuff for less than the local guy could buy it for, and the customers
    all got to see
    the prices in the magazines, so the local guys would have to entertain
    tire-kickers
    who would then buy mail-order. So the stopped carrying Canon. Period. For
    a number of years.

    Now, I see Canon stuff everywhere, so they must have addressed this issue,
    but
    it can abe a real problem for the small shop. I try to buy from small shops
    whenever
    I can, because I like to handle the equipment first, and local shops let me
    do that, if
    they carry the things I'm interested in. My personal rule is, if I take the
    local shop's
    time, I'm going to buy there if at all possible. Usually, we can work out
    something.

    Right now, I'm blessed with two good ones.

    YMMV,
    Henry Bibb
     
    Henry Bibb, Dec 23, 2003
    #13
  14. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    I pretty much know my requirements but I have visited local shops and I have
    not been really impressed, always out of stock, ignorant sales people and a
    35% markup to boot.
     
    hugo drax, Dec 23, 2003
    #14
  15. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    Maybe he gets great prices but I do not see what the big deal about buying
    local is, especially to pay a 35% markup fee would you hand over 200
    something dollars to a guy in a store just because he stood there to
    purchase something that would typically cost 640?
     
    hugo drax, Dec 23, 2003
    #15
  16. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    That sounds like A good idea, but I get the impression these mom and pop
    shops would rather let the dust collect on product or stock no product VS
    making some money but I might give it a try.
     
    hugo drax, Dec 23, 2003
    #16
  17. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    I would not mind paying 5-10 percent more but 35-40 percent (some stores
    wanted 884 pretax for the 200mm 2.8l) is over the line and before the
    internet my experiences with local shops were not that great anyways
    shopowners who ignore you while on the phone or tending to other stuff or
    ignorant or indifferent salesperson. I think the mom and popshop will
    dissapear with the scale of economies brought by the big boys.
     
    hugo drax, Dec 23, 2003
    #17
  18. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    I guess a 35-40 percent markup is okay but there is going to be less and
    less people willing to pay those huge margins.
     
    hugo drax, Dec 23, 2003
    #18
  19. hugo drax

    hugo drax Guest

    Its actually cheaper for me to rent a lens for 1 day and then purchase
    online VS paying 35-40 percent margin. with big ticket items like a 400mm
    4.0 DO its a huge savings.
     
    hugo drax, Dec 23, 2003
    #19
  20. I have a great local shop, and use them almost exclusively. If you pay with
    an American Express card, AmEx will refund you the difference between what
    you paid and the best price from any print ad. Limits are $250 per item,
    $1000 USD per year. AmEx used to price match internet ads, also, but they
    ceased that earlier this year.

    Paul Gustafson

     
    Paul Gustafson, Dec 23, 2003
    #20
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