Nikon's unexceptional 58mm f/1.4 lens price is ridiculous

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    : In article <[email protected]>,
    : [email protected]{REMOVESPAM}me.com says...
    : >
    : > On 2014-01-03 04:01:40 +0000, Robert Coe <> said:
    : >
    : > > On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:11:41 -0800, Savageduck <[email protected]{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
    : > > wrote:
    : > > : On 2014-01-02 21:50:05 +0000, "J. Clarke" <> said:
    : > > :
    : > > : > In article <[email protected]>,
    : > > : > [email protected]{REMOVESPAM}me.com says...
    : > > : >>
    : > > : >> On 2014-01-02 18:56:56 +0000, George Kerby
    : > > <> said:
    : > > : >>> On 1/1/14 5:29 PM, in article ,
    : > > : >>>> On Wed, 01 Jan 2014 09:34:08 -0600, George Kerby
    : > > <>
    : > > : >>>> wrote
    : > > : >> <<< Le Snip >>>
    : > > : >>
    : > > : >>>> : Rich - listen to the Duck, get rid of Google, PLEASE!!!
    : > > : >>>>
    : > > : >>>> Jeez, George, aren't you old enough to remember when typewritten
    : > > drafts were
    : > > : >>>> almost always double-spaced (so that someone editing them could write in
    : > > : >>>> corrections). You must have learned to read such documents pretty well.
    : > > : >>>>
    : > > : >>>> Which doesn't mean that you're wrong about Rich's crappy newsreader, of
    : > > : >>>> course. :^)
    : > > : >>>>
    : > > : >>>> Bob
    : > > : >>>
    : > > : >>> Agreed. And remember TWO spaces after every sentence? I bet you
    : > > do. Yes.
    : > > : >>
    : > > : >> Just remember, that double space typing convention only applies to word
    : > > : >> processors and computer apps if you are using monotype fonts.
    : > > : >
    : > > : > Why would one want to double space Monotype fonts but not those from
    : > > : > competing foundries? Perhaps you mean monospaced fonts?
    : > > :
    : > > : Monotype fonts as opposed to True Type fonts are single spaced, or
    : > > : "monospaced". TT fonts will space correctly and if you double space
    : > > : after a period with a TT font the appearance will be distorted. That is
    : > > : why with a TT font one should use an inserted ellipsis (?) which is
    : > > : rendered as a single character, rather than three periods (...) which
    : > > : are considered three separate characters. Whereas with a monotype font,
    : > > : standard typewriter convention is required to preserve proper
    : > > : formatting.
    : > >
    : > > Well ? Back when I worked in a print shop (almost 60 years ago), "monotype"
    : > > meant a form of typesetting in which each letter was a separate piece of
    : > > metal. As opposed to "linotype", in which each piece of metal comprised a full
    : > > line. Monotype characters were reusable (unless they got grunched in the
    : > > printing process), whilst all lines of a linotype article went back into the
    : > > furnace at the end of the print run.
    : > >
    : > > Bob
    : >
    : > That is type, I believe we, are talking about the behavior of computer
    : > application monotype *FONTS* they are two different things. A monotype
    : > font which is intended to replicate metal monotype, or old fashion
    : > typewriter type found on arms, type wheels , or the good old IBM golf
    : > ball.
    : > When you set type back in the day, each character filled a single
    : > space, placed next to each other to form a word, then you had a fixed
    : > spacer between words usually equal to the width of a single character.
    : > At the end of a sentence I am sure you used an appropriate double space
    : > at the scale of that particular type.
    :
    : No, Duck, "Monotype" has been a brand name for both a typesetting system
    : and for the associated typefaces since 1857.
    :
    : On a computer, "Monotype" fonts are fonts purchased from "Monotype
    : Imaging Holdings, Inc", which company currently owns the brands and type
    : libraries of "Monotype", "Linotype", "ITC", "Ascender", and "Bitstream".
    : Their major competitor would be Adobe.
    :
    : Monotype Imaging Holdings traces its history back to the Lanston
    : Monotype company founded in 1857 and at one time was one of the major
    : producers of typesetting machines, the other being Linotype. Neither
    : made typewriters, typewriter arms, type wheels, or IBM golf balls, but
    : both made cast-metal typesetting machines that were entirely capable of
    : managing proportional spacing, kerning, ligatures, and the whole nine
    : yards of commercial publishing.
    :
    : If you want to buy Monotype fonts, you find them at
    : <http://www.fonts.com/font/monotype>. They are not cheap.
    :
    : If you examine those offerings you will find that Monotype offers both
    : monospaced and proportional fonts.
    :
    : Someone somewhere may have told you that "monotype" is the correct term
    : for fixed-pitch fonts. It is not.
    :
    : Further, you have some serious misconceptions about how type was set
    : "back in the day". Ordinarily each character would be on a "sort" just
    : wide enough to hold the character--an "N" would typically be half as
    : wide as an "M", hence the terms "em" and "en" for spacing in the
    : typesetting industry. There would also be standard spaces in the "em"
    : and "en" size, and several other sizes, with shims as thin as .0002 inch
    : used to achieve justification. It wasn't all fixed-pitch prior to
    : computers--if you examine a Gutenberg Bible from the 1400s
    : <http://molcat1.bl.uk/treasures/gutenberg/record.asp> you will see that
    : he used proportional fonts, kerning, ligatures, and shimming to achieve
    : justified columns.

    Exactly. Indeed, justifying the lines is what took most of the time when
    setting type by hand. When you couldn't get another word or syllable in, you
    started by replacing each space with one slightly wider (or even slightly
    narrower). Then you might have to iterate on that - fewer times as you got
    good at it and could estimate the width of the spacers you'd need. And finally
    you'd add the shims, which were brass or bronze, because type metal was too
    soft to slice that thin. Then you'd add a vertical spacer and start the next
    line.

    Ligatures, BTW, were necessary, not just cosmetic, because some of the single
    letters had overhangs that kept them from being placed next to each other. If
    you were missing the correct ligature, you had to add just the right shims, or
    the characters would be damaged when you tightened up the page for printing

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 3, 2014
    #21
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