Nikon fails the brand promise of trustworthiness (for me)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mahesh Singh, Jul 2, 2005.

  1. Mahesh Singh

    Mahesh Singh Guest

    I'll never purchase another Nikon because they failed (by far) their brand
    promise to me.

    I bought the Nikon Coolpix 5000 because of Nikon's brand promise of
    "Trustworthiness and Creativity".

    For Creativity, I give them the complete 50 points in so much as this Nikon
    digital camera has all the creativity features I wanted (and more). I
    bought the Nikon CP5000 based on camera review comments.

    But the reviewers failed me also (although I don't blame them for missing
    what only turns out to be an obvious flaw after a year or so of use).

    For Trustworthiness, I give Nikon a near zero score. The Nikon CP5000
    digital camera batteries last fifteen or twenty minutes before the
    batteries are exhausted. I have two batteries so far and absolutely no
    inclination to purchase more.

    Sure, it's still cheaper to fund Nikon's battery department than to buy a
    Canon or otherwise reliable camera - but I am so disgusted with the
    performance of these proprietary camera batteries that emotionally I feel
    Nikon has failed me (they get 50 points out of 100 on their brand promise).

    Why should I fund the failed Nikon battery development department.

    Which brings me to this post.
    Sure, I can gripe and moan but that doesn't tell me anything.
    What I would like to know is AM I THE ONLY ONE?

    Is there anyone else out there absolutely disgusted with the broken Nikon
    promise of reliability? Or is it just me?
     
    Mahesh Singh, Jul 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. Mahesh Singh

    E. Mott Guest

    It's you.
     
    E. Mott, Jul 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. The CP5000 is a rather old camera. What age were the batteries you
    bought? What is the manufacturing date on them? Be aware that Li-ion
    batteries have a life of about 3 years - used or not - so any batteries
    supplied with the camera from new are now at or past their end of life
    point.

    You may be blaming Nikon unfairly. I have found the same batteries
    (EN-EL1) completely reliable in my Nikon 5700, both Nikon brand and 3rd
    party Hahnel, with perhaps 200 or more shots per charge.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Mahesh Singh

    Pb Guest

    Can't really coment on your own situation but the battery in my new Coolpix
    3700 has been faultless. Don't suppose you are doing anything unusual with
    the camera, are you?

    Paul

    --
    Paul ============}
    o o

    // Live fast, die old //
    PaulsPages are at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pcbradley/
     
    Pb, Jul 2, 2005
    #4
  5. Mahesh Singh

    Bob Guest

    Why pick on Nikon? The batterys in my Minolta only last 20 mins... or less!
     
    Bob, Jul 2, 2005
    #5
  6. On this date, E. Mott extended this wisdom for the
    consideration of other readers...
    I'm afraid that it's not just the OP that's discusted
    with Nikon...
     
    All Things Mopar, Jul 2, 2005
    #6
  7. But did a Canon, Minolta or Olympus outfit work any better for you?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 2, 2005
    #7
  8. Mahesh Singh

    Mahesh Singh Guest

    I thank you for your information. What you say is that Nikon fulfilled the
    brand promise expectation you had for your Coolpix 3700. However, I hope I
    don't come across too strong when I say that, in my humble opinion, the two
    cameras (nor batteries) don't compare directly considering the
    brand-promise expectations I had.

    For one, the brand-promise expectation of a thousand-dollar camera pales in
    comparison to that same level of "trustiworthiness" expected for a
    three-hundred-dollar camera in my mind. Basically, I expected more of a
    thousand-dollar camera than I received (far more in the trustworthiness
    scale and more than I asked for on the creativity scale).

    For the other, the Nikon EN-EL5 Lithium-Ion & Nikon EN-EL1 Lithium-Ion
    batteries are different. I suspect the chargers and the load are different
    also. Here, creativity is not a virtue - trustiworthiness is the ONLY
    criterion for a battery! In your Nikon 3700, the trustiworthiness was
    fulfilled - in my Nikon Coolpix 5000, the battery was NEVER trustworthy. At
    most, it lasted a day of shooting. Never more. And much less only three
    months after I bought both batteries.

    Nonetheless, it is heartening (for Nikon anyway :) to hear that not all
    their cameras are so absolutely untrustworthy - just this one is (and maybe
    just for me (and perhaps a few thousand other disenchanged new Nikon
    owners).

    Thank you very much for the Coolpix 3700 battery life information. If I
    would ever buy another Nikon (probably not though), I'd NEVER spend a
    thousand dollars ASSUMING the brand promise would be fulfilled. What you
    are telling me is that I could have gotten the TRUSTWORTHY & CREATIVE
    features out of a camera that was 1/2 the cost of the one I unfortunately
    own. (That assumes the 3700 allows the phenominal creativity that Nikon
    offers in the CP5000).

    I appreciate your time and assistance! Thank you.
     
    Mahesh Singh, Jul 2, 2005
    #8
  9. Mahesh Singh

    Mahesh Singh Guest

    This is a good point.

    I "pick on" Nikon only because I paid a thousand dollars for what I THOUGHT
    was a premium brand which I thought fulfilled its often-stated promise of
    TRUSTWORTHINESS and creativity.

    I got more than enough creativity out of my Nikon Coolpix 5000.
    But I got little to zero trustworthiness.
    I can't even trust to take this camera out on a day trip, let alone a
    full-fledged vacation for two (me and my camera).

    Nikon should be ashamed for selling this camera.
    I should be even MORE ASHAMED for believing the brand promise (fool me once
    ....).

    If I had paid a thousand dollars for Minolta's brand promise of "the
    essentials of imaging", and if I didn't get those essentials, for a
    thousand-dollar set of expectations, I'd "pick on" Minolta too. :)
     
    Mahesh Singh, Jul 2, 2005
    #9
  10. Taylor

    There's also the possibility that the camera is defective in some way.
    Did it ever work properly, and did you buy it new or used? I use the
    same battery in a CoolPix 995, and the life is so good I keep
    forgetting I have to charge them occasionally. The CP 5000 (the very
    next model) shouldn't draw THAT much more power.
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jul 2, 2005
    #10
  11. Looking over your various posts, it appears that your problem with the
    batteries began "after a year or so of use"

    I don't know what your use cycle is; do you shoot dozens of pictures a
    day, or hundreds? Here are some facts for you:

    1. Digital cameras draw a LOT of power. That's why most manufacturers
    uses rechargeable rather than throwaway batteries.

    2. Rechargeable batteries have a finite lifespan. With modern high
    capacity batteries, this can be as little as a 2-3 hundred
    charge-discharge cycles.

    3. REGARDLESS of brand, you should count on swapping batteries at least
    once in a busy day of shooting, and replacing the batteries every
    couple of years.

    Check Nikon's specs for the number of expected exposures per charge,
    and how this was determined (percentage of shots with flash, etc.) Get
    a NEW battery, charge and maintain it according to instructions, and
    compare your results to the specification. If your results are more
    than, say, 30% less than the spec, and the camera checks out OK at a
    nikon authorized service station, THEN you can bitch about the brands'
    "untrustworthiness."
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jul 2, 2005
    #11
  12. Mahesh Singh

    ASAAR Guest

    True. It's not as if only one person is allowed to be unfairly
    critical of Nikon or other manufacturers.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 2, 2005
    #12
  13. Scott, please be a little more careful in your attribution. It wasn't me
    who complained of lack of trustworthiness but: "Mahesh Singh"
    <>.

    I do agree with you that his camera may be or have become defective, but
    as far as I can see he hasn't yet answered the question about the date of
    manufacture of the batteries. The 5000 came out in 2002, and if there was
    systematic battery life problem I suspect we would have heard about it by
    now.

    Thanks,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 2, 2005
    #13
  14. Mahesh Singh

    Bob Haar Guest


    You say fifteen or twenty minutes, How many pictures are you taking in that
    time? Are you using the flash?

    A number P&S camera have battery life of about 100 pictures or less. My
    first digital, a Nikon 880 had gave me typically 75 to 80. When I was
    looking for a DSLR, I paid attention to the battery life and found good
    recommendations =for the D70. When I bought one, I found that the battery
    life is astonishingly long compared to my 880. I now get 750 to 1000
    pictures on one battery charge.

    It seems to me that you did insufficient research before making your
    purchase. What did Nikon's technical specs say about battery life? Did you
    even look? If this is so important to you, then you should have done the
    research.
     
    Bob Haar, Jul 2, 2005
    #14
  15. Mahesh Singh

    ASAAR Guest

    I thought I answered a similar message concerning Nikon's CP5000
    recently but I can't find any trace of it, so I may have deleted it.
    In any case, there may not be anything wrong with your camera. The
    supplied charger isn't very "smart", and can apparently damage
    batteries if you are in habit of recharging them too soon. It's
    probably best (with the CP5000) to only recharge the battery when
    it's depleted or very low. Otherwise the battery may frequently end
    up being overcharged, shortening its life.

    There are two ways to deal with this. One is to have two
    batteries, so that even though you might sometimes start taking
    pictures with a battery that might be fairly low, you'll always have
    at least one fully charged battery when you start taking pictures.
    The second way would be to find an aftermarket "smart" charger, that
    can more safely charge your batteries, even when they're only
    partially discharged. If you get a new battery for the CP5000, you
    should immediately notice greater battery life, and the challenge
    will then be trying to recharge it properly, so that its lifetime
    will be measured in years rather than months.

    Here's Phil Askey's comment from dpreview, and his (probably)
    misguided conclusion:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp5000/page4.asp
     
    ASAAR, Jul 2, 2005
    #15
  16. Mahesh Singh

    Kitt Guest

    So, what does Nikon support have to say about this? They say the
    battery will last approximately 100 minutes and you say it's under 30,
    right? Sounds to me like a defect, so what have they told you?

    Kitt
     
    Kitt, Jul 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Mahesh Singh

    Mahesh Singh Guest

    My original Nikon EN-EL1 battery lasted about six months before it became
    unreliable. The new (apparently) off-brand EN-EL1 battery lasted even less
    before I couldn't trust the Nikon camera to be there when I needed it to be
    there for me. I have no desire to further fund the failed Nikon battery
    development team's design efforts feeding this camera failed batteries. I
    feel Nikon's engineers should have known better if they were to promise
    "trustworthiness". They *knew* this combination couldn't work (either that
    or I struck out twice on otherwise perfectly good batteries).
    I'm looking at both batteries as we speak. One says "Nikon EN-EL1 Lithium
    Ion Battery Pack 7.4V 680mAh Nikon Corp. Made in Japan" and it has Japanese
    characters but nothing else on it (on the other side is the warning
    "Caution Do not incinerate, disasssemble, short. Use designated charger
    only." and then the stylized characters "ST" and punched into the label
    below the snake-chasing Li-ion symbol are the letters ":A:1". The other
    battery pack has the text worn smooth but I can barely make out LENWAR as
    the manufacturer and "29" stamped on the black plastic case.

    From that, can we definitively tell the manufacturing date?
    Do you have the same Nikon charger?

    Mine says Nikon MH-53 Lithium Ion Battery Charger, input 100-240V, 50/60Hz,
    0.15A to 0.1A 13-18VA ... Output 8.4V 0.6A, Nikon Corp, Made in China,
    KGComp, 02H24 (which probably means it was made in the 24th week of 2002).

    I understand this charger has no "smarts" to it (again, I should fault
    Nikon for putting a dumb charger in a thousand-dollar battery - but I
    really fault myself for trusting in Nikon's oft-stated promise of
    "trustworthiness and creativity".

    Basically, for a company who promises trustworthiness, the Coolpix
    designers obviously made a very serious mistake in their choice of camera
    components - so serious that they lost a customer (probably for life). Now,
    if I had never expected reliability, then I wouldn't have paid so much for
    this trustworthiness that I didn't receive and then I wouldn't have been so
    down on Nikon. I think our Minolta friend, who paid a third of what I paid
    for his camera, is in that boat.

    This thread really isn't about shelf life. It's about whether or not the
    wrong batteries are in the Nikon cameras such that the trustworthiness
    promise of Nikon is a false hope.
     
    Mahesh Singh, Jul 2, 2005
    #17
  18. Mahesh Singh

    Darrell Guest

    We use one in the store to shoot passports, and we go days before changing
    batteries.
     
    Darrell, Jul 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Mahesh Singh

    Mahesh Singh Guest

    I bought it new. March of 2003. It worked well (with respect to the
    batteries) only during the first few months. Before the warranty was out, I
    had seriously considered sending it back but I never got around to it,
    preferring not to use the camera. Over time, the warranty expired and now
    I'm mad at myself for purchasing a Nikon in the first place based on their
    promise of trustworthiness and creativity.

    That's why I ask if it's just my situation or if it's universal that the
    Nikon promise of trustworthiness failed. Their promise of creativity was
    fulfilled (in my opinion) so they only get great marks on half the
    equation. They get dismal marks on the other half (the camera is never
    there when I need it).

    The contrast is so striking between the two promises of Nikon that it makes
    me wonder how they stay in business. That's why I ask you for more
    information.
     
    Mahesh Singh, Jul 2, 2005
    #19
  20. Mahesh Singh

    Nostrobino Guest

    I question whether Nikon actually has a "battery development department" or
    manufactures their own batteries. Li Ion batteries are an established
    technology and I would think the sensible thing for Nikon (and other camera
    manufacturers) to do would be to have batteries made for them by some
    company that does that. Granted that the batteries are specifically in a
    Nikon size, I would still think the logical thing for Nikon to do would be
    to give some good battery maker(s) the necessary specs and let them produce
    the batteries.

    Apparently it is only the short battery life you've experienced which causes
    you to complain of "the broken Nikon promise of reliability." That seems
    unreasonable. If I understand you correctly, you are perfectly happy with
    everything else about the camera, nothing has actually failed on it in the
    years you've had it, and it doesn't sound as if you've ever had the camera
    checked to see whether there's any problem which would cause the batteries
    to run down prematurely.

    I doubt whether there's anything wrong with the batteries themselves,
    especially since you have two of 'em and evidently get the same result from
    both. I recently bought a Nikon Coolpix 8700 which takes the same EN-EL1
    size battery, and I don't have anything remotely like the problem with
    battery life that you're complaining about.

    According to the DPReview page here,
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp5000/page13.asp
    the Nikon 5000 had a battery life of 2 hours 32 minutes using their test
    method, which is described. That is not much different from the 2 hrs 45 min
    listed for my 8700. It is certainly nowhere near the 15 to 20 minutes that
    you're complaining about. So something seems to be wrong there. Either the
    camera is doing something wrong, or you are.

    N.
     
    Nostrobino, Jul 2, 2005
    #20
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