Nikon D700x expected announcement date Dec 20

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Tony the insider, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    that would have been great, but unfortunately, it's impossible to make
    a digital back for just about all film slrs.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #21
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  2. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    agreed. pentax made some great cameras and it would sad to see them go
    away, although the name might live on somehow. olympus might manage to
    stay alive with micro 4/3rds since it has its own niche.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #22
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  3. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    it may not be 'impossible' but it requires a lot of work and it is no
    longer practical.
    that helps.
    sure, or put the electronics below the camera, as if it had a motor
    drive.
    here's where it gets interesting, and it's anything but minor...

    the light sensitive part of the sensor is behind an anti-alias filter
    and infrared cut filter and perhaps a glass protective layer, whereas
    the light sensitive part of film is on the surface. thus, to maintain
    focus, the sensor would have to protrude *into* the camera for it to
    line up properly. that means that either the sensor will be limited to
    a cropped size (so it can fit into the film gate), or the film gate
    would need to be cut to accommodate a full frame sensor. complicating
    this is that the shutter mechanism is close to where the film plane is,
    and to get the proper alignment, it might also require moving the
    shutter assembly inward.

    if you go with a cropped sensor (to avoid cutting the film gate) and
    assuming the shutter is already far enough forward (which eliminates
    most slrs), you now have a viewfinder that no longer matches the
    sensor. the solution there is to crop off the excess in the viewfinder
    (a.k.a. the 'sports finder' that sigma used on the sd-9). this becomes
    even more of a headache with interchangeable screens.

    then there's metering. you would need to set the iso *twice*, once on
    the camera and again on the sensor assembly, as the camera has no way
    to tell the sensor the iso (why would it? film never changed). since
    the sensor is cropped, the metering bias is no longer accurate. what
    the meter sees in the middle of the image (because the camera thinks
    it's still full frame film) is really at the edge of the cropped sensor
    (and likely less important) and what it sees at the edge isn't even
    captured. also, sensors reflect differently than film so any off the
    film metering (e.g., flash) may be adversely affected as well.

    and then there's the issue of the memory buffer. the camera will
    happily shoot many frames per second for as long as you hold down the
    shutter button. meanwhile, can the sensor keep up? in the event the
    buffer fills, how will it tell the camera to stop?
    it was fairly clear.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #23
  4. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    here's another report -- september 2008 sales, reported by popular
    photography:

    <http://flash.popphoto.com/blog/2008/11/top-selling-cameras-for-septembe
    r-2008.html>

    although canon has the #1 spot, nikon has the #2, #3 *and* #4 spot.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #24
  5. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    in that post, you mentioned a 3mm clearance. i don't know offhand if
    that's sufficient or not but it's certainly cutting it *very* close if
    it is. most cameras will require moving the shutter, which basically
    means it's no longer practical to bother adapting it.
    so you lose the functionality of interchangeable screens, although i
    suppose a whole new set of screens could be released.
    it's now effectively a larger spot.
    does it look at the edges of the frame? those are no longer in the
    photo, but the meter still analyzes them.
    maybe, but you still have to set iso twice.
    and a firmware change means you no longer can have a module that the
    user can drop in. they'd have to send the camera out for updating.
    and since new functionality is being added to the camera's firmware
    (namely, sending shooting information to the sensor), there may not be
    enough room in the existing rom chip to hold it all, which would
    require a larger capacity chip and quite possibly, changing quite a bit
    more.
    preflash would be required.
    that's quite a compromise!
    it's not practical.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #25
  6. Tony the insider

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Get real. One month's data means almost nothing. Pick another month
    and Canon could hold the top spots, depending on what cameras were
    recently released.
     
    Ray Fischer, Nov 16, 2008
    #26
  7. Tony the insider

    John Sheehy Guest

    That's ridiculous. They need to work with the image circle of existing
    lenses.
     
    John Sheehy, Nov 16, 2008
    #27
  8. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    the point is that sms claimed that nikon was 'struggling' to keep up
    with canon. they're not.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #28
  9. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    that, and it is unit sales, not dollar revenue. there are lots of ways
    to spin the numbers. in any event, nikon is not struggling.
    you need a better client that honors <> delimiters. on mine, the url
    is automatically highlighted as a clickable link, regardless of how
    many lines are used.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #29
  10. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    not relevant; hasselblad was designed for interchangeable backs and
    doesn't have the limitations that a 35mm slr does.
     
    Guest, Nov 16, 2008
    #30
  11. Tony the insider

    P&S_Fan Guest

    Oh? Are you claiming that DSLR lenses are flawed? Say it can't be so.

    LOL

    (I'm not objecting, I'm sarcastically claiming that you are 100% correct.)
     
    P&S_Fan, Nov 17, 2008
    #31
  12. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    sometimes thoth adds a space when wrapping and i guess it handles
    spaces if a url wraps. that must have been one of those times.
    it hasn't.
     
    Guest, Nov 17, 2008
    #32
  13. Tony the insider

    Paul Furman Guest

    Thunderbird broke on the first, worked on the second. With the old
    Mozilla I had to use the angle brackets but not t-bird when sending.
    Wrapped links actually working would be nice :)

    --
    Paul Furman
    www.edgehill.net
    www.baynatives.com

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
     
    Paul Furman, Nov 17, 2008
    #33
  14. Tony the insider

    SMS Guest

    Canon sold far, far, more cameras than Nikon last year. However in
    D-SLRs, Canon sold more than Nikon in 2007 but not far more. Canon was
    at 42%, Nikon was at 40%.

    For 2008, it's likely that Nikon sold more D-SLRs than Canon, thanks to
    the D40, though Canon will still lead in $ value of D-SLRs sold. Of
    course Canon still sold far more cameras than Nikon when you include P&S
    models.

    Nikon wasn't even in the top 3 in terms of total units sold in 2007.
     
    SMS, Nov 17, 2008
    #34
  15. Tony the insider

    Guest Guest

    so your own numbers show that isn't struggling like you said they were.
     
    Guest, Nov 17, 2008
    #35
  16. Tony the insider

    Me Here Guest

    No, but in consumer electronics buyers are merely sheep led around by the
    marketing weasels, Cars normally run a 12 month cycle, not withstanding the
    2008 1/2 models.

    Get with the program!!!

    Resistance is futile.
     
    Me Here, Nov 17, 2008
    #36
  17. Tony the insider

    SMS Guest

    Cars are a much more mature product. More importantly, if you buy a
    Toyota one year, and buy a Honda 5 years later, you don't have to throw
    away a bunch of stuff that works only on the Toyota. I.e., I've used my
    Thule racks on a succession of vehicles from VW, Honda, and Toyota (2),
    with only minor outlays for some vehicle specific roof mounting. I can't
    use my Canon lenses on a Nikon D-SLR (the opposite is possible but not
    desirable).

    In reality, in this case, it's the electronics's buyers that are leading
    the consumer electronics companies around. If you buy a Nikon camera and
    several lenses, and a flash, you're pretty much committed to Nikon for a
    very very long time, which is how Nikon wants it. Ditto for Canon. So
    it's vitally important to these companies that their products don't lack
    some key feature that the competition has, because of the long-term
    implications. Nikon _must_ quickly upgrade the D700 to avoid the long
    term loss of customers to Canon, because of Canon's introduction of the
    5D Mark II. Conversely, Canon's at a disadvantage with their XSi versue
    the D90, since the D90 does video and the XSi does not, and in a segment
    that is geared toward those upgrading from a video-capable P&S, the D90
    has a compelling advantage to those that don't like hauling both a D-SLR
    and a camcorder around. Ditto for the D300 versus the 50D. Nikon will
    almost certainly introduce a D300 replacement with greater resolution,
    and may add video to leapfrog the 50D. The cost won't go up, but the
    features will.

    The most minor feature can tip a buying decision. I remember seeing a
    story about Honda on TV. Many years ago, when the Accord/Camry battle
    first started, Honda introduced cup holders in the Accord, and the Camry
    didn't yet have them. There were customers that felt the two vehicles
    were equal in quality and price, and were basing their final selection
    of the Accord over the Camry on the presence of cup holders.
     
    SMS, Nov 17, 2008
    #37
  18. Tony the insider

    John Sheehy Guest

    Even with your explanation of sarcasm; I have no idea what you're saying.
    My reference to the image circle is about vignetting which would occur with
    35mm format lenses with a bigger sensor.
     
    John Sheehy, Nov 18, 2008
    #38
  19. Tony the insider

    Chris H Guest

    2% is bugger all difference when both are at the 40% mark. Also it means
    that al the rest put together only have 8% of the market.
    That is the market we were discussing?
    And the D300, D700 and D3
    Over priced? :)
    So Cannon lead in DSLR's by a long way
    Cannon sell more P&S by a long way.
    Total units shipped Nikon is not in top three (though the third
    company has less than 8% of the market to Nikons 40%)

    Yet Nikon is only 2% Cannon.... your numbers don't add up.


    I note that Digital Photo and Practical Photography voted Nikon Best
    across the board fro 2008

    Best Pro DSLR D3
    Best Advanced DSLR D300
    Product of the Year D3
     
    Chris H, Nov 19, 2008
    #39
  20. Tony the insider

    SMS Guest

    Your arithmetic skills need some help.

    Actually for 2007 D-SLR sales it was:

    Canon 43%
    Nikon 40%
    Sony 6%
    Olympus 6%
    Others 5%
    No, someone wrote "nikon sold more cameras than canon did last year".
    It's not true of course, Canon sold far more total cameras than Nikon
    did last year, and slightly more D-SLRs, though Canon lost a lot of
    market share in D-SLRs to Nikon, who introduced a slew of new models
    into the market, competing in segments of the D-SLR market for the first
    time.
    Canon doesn't have a mass-market entry at the extreme low end like the
    D40. That's where the big volumes are.
    No, not possible. Certainly.

    Canon 18.8%
    Sony 16.0%
    Kodak 9.6%
    Samsung 9.0%
    Nikon 8.4%
    Olympus 8.3%

    No such company as Cannon, but Canon did outsell Nikon slightly in 2007
    in D-SLRs. For 2008, when the data comes out, Nikon will likely have a
    slight advantage.
    Again, no such company as Canon, but yes, Canon outsells every other
    manufacturer by quite a wide margin.
    Canon outsells every manufacturer in total units. In D-SLR units, Canon
    was slightly ahead on Nikon in 2007, but when the numbers come in for
    2008, Nikon will likely lead Canon slightly.
    I guess Nikon placed more ads than Canon. To claim that the D3 is a
    better pro camera than the 1Ds Mark II is ludicrous.
     
    SMS, Nov 19, 2008
    #40
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