Nikon D70 dSLR or Nikon CP8800 Non dSLR (Non-CCD Cleaning!!) ??

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2005.

  1. Graham Holden wrote:
    This is a superb, well though-out post, and I was especially interested
    in the last paragraph. I have been going through exactly the same
    problem: dslr or Nikon 8800. After months of thinking about these two,
    I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a Panasonic Z20. What I did was review
    all the shooting I did in the last year with a 5 Mpix camera (Canon
    s500)and ask, what did I wish I had most. It was a much longer zoom
    range and vibration reduction always at hand. Next was a faster and
    better lens at the corners. Next was a lot more flexibilty. What did I
    want to retain as much as possible? Small size and portability.
    Reasonably fast shutter response. I realized that the Panasonic was
    much closer to what I wanted than a dslr. Since it can be had for under
    $500, it is not a major investment. When I start sensing that I am
    missing shots or not getting as good shots as I should be, then I'll
    seriously look at a dslr. With my S500, I feel that over 90% of the
    pictures could not be improved if I had taken tham with a fine dslr. The
    other 10% weren't any great loss either. I also carefully compared
    images with the Panasonic and dslrs, and while the latter were better,
    they were not that much better for normal use. I decided I liked the
    idea of owning a dslr more than i would actually benefit from having
    one. And I've owned fine film slr's for decades.

    Joseph Miller, Mar 3, 2005
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  2. You beat me to it. That's the biggest issue between DSLR and nonDSLR
    if lens variety isn't that important.

    CCD cleaning is not so bad with SensorSwabs.
    Oliver Costich, Mar 4, 2005
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  3. IMO the best deal on a 5MP P&S is the Nikon Coolpix 5400, under $300
    after a $200 rebate (until Mar 31)
    Oliver Costich, Mar 4, 2005
  4. With the P&S the live preview of what the actual photo size will be.
    Their viewfinders are completely inaccurate rel to the DSLRs.
    Oliver Costich, Mar 4, 2005
  5. Guest

    bmoag Guest

    One more screed:
    It is obvious that most writers have limited or no real experience with EVF
    cameras: these are a new form factor.
    The main drawback as well as the main asset is the EVF as for most people
    the zoom lens is of sufficient range and quality. If you do not understand
    why the lens diaphragm is limited to f8 then it should not be of any concern
    to you whatever.
    Also those who have not worked extensively with images created from these
    8mp sensors have absolutely no idea how stellar the images can be compared
    to 6mp dSLRs.
    If you want to see noise, moire and fringing pick up a D70: because I am
    used to a lifetime of SLRs I use my D70 more than my Sony 828, but in
    general I prefer the image quality from my Sony 828.
    The extra 2mps make a real difference.
    In fact, if one wants a dSLR I think it unwise to buy anything other than
    the new Canon D20 (unfortunately I have a shelf full of Nikon lenses).
    The EVF allows one to preview what happens with exposure adjustments prior
    to taking the picture, e.g exposing for the highlights or the shadows. This
    can be very helpful as well as instructive.
    However it can be difficult to track moving objects or to use an EVF in
    bright light: one can only guess when to press the shutter button.
    EVF cameras handle much more slowly than dSLRS, most of which, like the D70,
    handle almost as quickly as film SLRs.
    If you do not want an SLR style/size/weight camera do not hesitate to get
    the EVF camera of your choice.
    bmoag, Mar 4, 2005
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest


    Thanks for all the info guys!! I've just got in after working nights
    expecting maybe two or three replies, and at the risk of repeating my self:

    Thank you again everyone. I shall read properly, inwardly digest, compute,
    and hopefully (armed with all the info and advice) at last come to a
    conclusion and a decision. Maybe!


    Darrell Burnett.
    Guest, Mar 4, 2005
  7. Joseph Miller wrote:
    There's a free program called Focalplot at:

    which enables you to analyse the focal lengths used in a series of digital
    camera pictures....

    David J Taylor, Mar 4, 2005
  8. Oliver Costich wrote:
    Both consumer DSLRs and the LCD and EVF finders of point-and-shoot cameras
    show about 97% of the full frame area. Unless you have depth-of-field
    preview, the DSLR finder will also inaccurately portray the depth of

    David J Taylor, Mar 4, 2005
  9. Guest

    Sheldon Guest

    I was trying to help someone with a high-end Nikon p and s camera take some
    macro photos. What a pain, trying to focus manually turning all the knobs
    on the camera, and we never did get a good shot. With my D70 I just throw a
    macro lens on the camera and turn the focus ring on the lens 'till it's in
    Sheldon, Mar 5, 2005
  10. Sheldon wrote:
    I don't find that on the Nikon 990, 5700 and 8400. The 990 is absolutely
    superb for macro and doesn't require an extra lens (as would a DSLR). You
    just need to:

    - press the focus button until the macro symbol appears (a flower)

    - use the middle of the zoom range (the flower changes colour)

    - use the auto-focus

    With the swivel viewfinder, positioning the camera and framing the subject
    can be a lot easier than with a DSLR.

    David J Taylor, Mar 5, 2005
  11. Guest

    Ed Ruf Guest

    Don't know what the problem was. As with David's experience mine with a 990
    and 5700 are easy to take macros with AF, as long as you 1. turn on the
    macro option and 2. put the lens in the macro sweet spot so the macro
    flower symbol turns yellow.

    I will agree that MF with any of the Nikon P&S is a PIA in general.
    Ed Ruf, Mar 5, 2005
  12. Guest

    John Denk Guest

    On 03-04-05, Bmoag wrote:


    (clipped again)

    I've been using my D70 since May of 2004, and these have not been a
    problem with my camera.

    I usually shoot at ISO's of 400 or less, so noise has not been evident
    at all, as long as I expose properly. At higher ISO's, noise does become
    more evident, but not really objectionable until I go really high or
    have to crop significantly.

    I have not encountered shooting situations where the Moire problem is
    evident, at least not so far. I have never seen even a hint of color
    fringing, except when I shot with the inexpensive Nikon 70-300 zoom,
    which I bought and returned immediately, so I suspect that if you're
    seeing fringing, it's the fault of your lens, not the camera body.

    Regarding dust spots, I shoot nature stuff primarily, and often have to
    change lenses in the field, so I have had dust spots. So far, using a
    large rubber bulb to blow the dust off of the sensor has worked just
    fine, and I haven't had to resort to cleaning the sensor with swabs and
    cleaning solution yet, but I'm sure it will eventually be needed.

    Regarding macro capabilities, I respectfully question that the macro
    capabilities of a digital point-and-shoot can equal a DSLR with a good
    dedicated macro lens, especially when you consider that you can add
    extension tubes to a DSLR macro for some extreme close-ups of really
    tiny subject matter, which is something that I occasionally require.

    Plus, my SB800 flash functions very nicely in this macro set-up, so I am
    able to hand-hold the camera in extreme macro situations and get spot-on
    flash exposure.

    John Denk, Mar 5, 2005
  13. Guest

    Patrick Boch Guest

    You can read all you like..Very good informative...But for me: I go to a
    good dealer-and just plain use them. The right camera will come forward.

    A+ CERTIFIED TECH...........
    Patrick Boch, Mar 7, 2005
  14. Guest

    MaryL Guest

    That *used* to be what I would do, but there is literally no knowledgeable
    dealer within driving distance. When I was young, we used to have numerous
    camera stores staffed by people who knew and enjoyed cameras. Most of them
    have been driven out of business by the WalMarts and discount stores. I am
    getting ready to buy a camera right now, and so far have not even found a
    location where I can do any "hands-on" testing. Those that do carry cameras
    will sometimes have 1 or 2 of the cameras I wanted to compare, but never in
    the same store -- and the salespersons' knowledge is "less than
    knowledgeable." So, I find myself relying more and more on sites like
    dpreview and messages on this newsgroup. For example, I am very interested
    in Nikon 8800. It seems to fill most of what I want. However, my big
    concern is shutter lag -- and I *still* have not found one in stock anywhere
    so that I could actually test one.

    MaryL, Mar 7, 2005
  15. Guest

    Patrick Boch Guest

    There is no solution to shutter lag...when you deal with the 8800...Unless
    some type of miracle...CF comes out....

    A+ CERTIFIED TECH...........
    Patrick Boch, Mar 7, 2005
  16. MaryL wrote:
    Can you buy on a sale-or-return basis?

    David J Taylor, Mar 7, 2005
  17. Guest

    MaryL Guest

    The problem is, I don't know *how severe* the shutter lag is. For example,
    my first digital camera was a Nikon Coolpix 880. It served my purposes
    admirably, and I still use it. I bought it specifically for a trip to
    Alaska when I wanted something small enough to stick in a pocket yet good
    enough to produce good photos. Even now, it is a pretty good little camera,
    and it takes gorgeous macros -- but one *big* negative with it is the very
    bad problem with shutter lag. So, I would love to know how to compare the
    relative speed of the two cameras in low light. If shutter lag on the 8800
    is as bad as on the 880, then I wouldn't want it. I have seen some reviews
    that say the shutter lag on the 8800 is serious and others that say it is
    barely perceptible! However, this is one of the reasons I am also
    considering a D70. I also like the idea of a dSLR (which would exclude the
    8800), yet I want a camera that I can easily carry with me. I don't want to
    become encumbered with a lot of weight, as eventually happened with my film
    SLRs -- and meant that I frequently opted not to even carry a camera to
    certain locations. And, of course, the D70 can become quite pricey once
    lenses are added in. It is frustrating not to have any locations within
    reasonable driving distance where I can get the "feel" of the cameras I am

    MaryL, Mar 7, 2005
  18. Guest

    MaryL Guest

    I plan to ask about that. I will probably use B&H. I have received good
    service from them in the past, but I need to verify their return policy.

    MaryL, Mar 7, 2005
  19. In this case you must try an 8800. I decided it was the camera for me
    based on reviews. My first was a Coolpix 950, and the shutter lag never
    bothered me that much with that camera. I tend to frame a subject and
    push the shutter half-way at the same time, so when I push all the way,
    there is virtually no lag. I thought the 8800 shutter lag wouldn't
    bother me, but it really did. There was something about the EVF and the
    way things behaved when you pushed the button that put me off. It also
    hunted around at full zoom in light that was a bit dim. I really wanted
    to love this camera and played with it for about 30 minutes in the
    store. The salesman was extremely knowledgable, as he was using one
    professionally. But in the end I just found it didn't feel right to me.
    Once again I concluded you must try it out for yourself. I could well
    imagine that others would love this camera. I was very disapointed. On
    the other hand, I tried a Panasonic Z20, and immediately it felt just
    right in my hands. I thought it was perfect except I wanted 8 Mpix. Now
    I have done a careful comparison of 5 and 8 Mpix cameras and have
    decided, that for a while at least, the Panasonic should do just fine.

    Joseph Miller, Mar 7, 2005
  20. Guest

    MaryL Guest

    Thanks for that information. My first digital camera (which I still use on
    many occasions) was a Nikon 880. However, I like to take lots of pictures
    of my cats. By the time I can get the shutter on that one activated, my
    cats have often changed positions. It's frustrating! So, it sounds like
    the 8800 might be the same way. I'm also interested in the D70. That one
    won't have the shutter lag problem, but it will be heavier (and more
    expensive). None of the stores around here have that one in stock, etiher.

    MaryL, Mar 7, 2005
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