New Sony DSC-R1 APS Sized 10 Meg Camera

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by deryck lant, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. deryck  lant

    deryck lant Guest

    http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydscr1/

    New class of camera
    10 Meg APS sized sensor
    3fps for 3 frames (very small buffer will not compete with DSLR cameras)
    24-120mm equiv Carl Zeiss lens f2.8-f4.8
    ISO 160-3200
    2 inch LCD
    995 grams inc battery
    995 USD

    Deryck
     
    deryck lant, Sep 8, 2005
    #1
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  2. deryck  lant

    deryck lant Guest

    The message <>
    Forgot to add:

    The silent low-light camera for live theatre performance

    Deryck
     
    deryck lant, Sep 8, 2005
    #2
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  3. deryck  lant

    l e o Guest


    You left out one important element that many people here, like David J
    Taylor, are chasing after. The Sony R1 has live preview! It's a CMOS
    sensor! Price is $1000. How big is the sensor? Is it the same size as dSLRs?
     
    l e o, Sep 8, 2005
    #3
  4. deryck  lant

    l e o Guest


    Nevermind, I found the answer at Sony site. The sensor is only a tiny,
    tiny bit smaller than 350D.
     
    l e o, Sep 8, 2005
    #4
  5. deryck  lant

    Mark B. Guest

    More or less - it's 21.5 x 14.4mm, while the 20D sensor is 22.5 x 15mm.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Sep 8, 2005
    #5
  6. deryck  lant

    Larry Lynch Guest


    Having used the 828 for a couple of horse show seasons, I whined for a
    camera like it that would work in low light... Now they seem to have
    built one.. All I gotta do is save my pennies to have one for next
    season.

    I'll still use my DSLR, but now it might get used less, and I might not
    spend as much on lenses as I had planned.

    Life is good.
     
    Larry Lynch, Sep 8, 2005
    #6
  7. So all new dSLR releases from Nikon/Minolta/Pentax will be 10MP CMOS
    sensor based?

    - Siddhartha
     
    Siddhartha Jain, Sep 8, 2005
    #7
  8. deryck  lant

    deryck lant Guest

    The message <>
    No - not necessarily. This particular sensor is too small in area.

    High-end point and shoot cameras like the DSC-R1 will have this sensor.
    The picture making experience using the abysmal digital viewfinder on
    the DSC-R1 is not on the same planet as a mirror reflex DSLR viewfinder.

    Deryck
     
    deryck lant, Sep 8, 2005
    #8
  9. I am not talking about the DSC-R1 vs dSLRs. I am talking about the
    sensor it uses. Its very marginally smaller than the Canon 20D sensor,
    is CMOS and supports ISO from 100-3200. Pretty much what
    Nikon/Pentax/Minolta would want for their future dSLR models.

    - Siddhartha
     
    Siddhartha Jain, Sep 8, 2005
    #9
  10. deryck  lant

    l e o Guest


    It won't be this particular sensor. This is a tiny bit smaller than
    350D, which in turn is smaller than those used in Nikon's. But you can
    bet that there will be a 10 or even 12MP sensor for other dSLR
    manufacturers, including Sony. What I like seeing about this R1 is the
    price, in particular this 10MP sensor. The body is plastic though!
     
    l e o, Sep 8, 2005
    #10
  11. deryck  lant

    deryck lant Guest

    The message <>
    Nikon and Pentax use a larger sensor than the APS-C Canon at 23.7x15.6mm.
    The DSC-R1 sensor is 21.5x14.4mm. Nikon keep to a standard and must not
    be confused with Canon.

    Deryck
     
    deryck lant, Sep 8, 2005
    #11
  12. True. High time that people paying for high end P&S with big zooms got
    better sensors. It sucks when you buy a high-end P&S only to get the
    same image quality as a tiny P&S despite having a much much better
    lens. Lets see what others follow with.

    - Siddhartha
     
    Siddhartha Jain, Sep 8, 2005
    #12
  13. deryck  lant

    Guest Guest

    : True. High time that people paying for high end P&S with big zooms got
    : better sensors. It sucks when you buy a high-end P&S only to get the
    : same image quality as a tiny P&S despite having a much much better
    : lens. Lets see what others follow with.

    Which, to me, begs the question of why bother with such a camera. Comparing
    to a low-mid range DSLR of the same price, I see these as advantages:

    - No noise from mirror coming up
    - Pivotable LCD screen
    - No dust on sensor
    - Potential "movie" mode

    .... with the big disadvantages of

    - No interchangable lenses
    - Not appreciably smaller than a DSLR
    - Lower quality viewfinder than actual mirror/ground glass

    I guess to some people these are worthwhile tradeoffs.

    -Cory

    --

    *************************************************************************
    * Cory Papenfuss *
    * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
    * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
    *************************************************************************
     
    Guest, Sep 8, 2005
    #13
  14. deryck  lant

    l e o Guest


    I am interested in learning more about the lens. It seems to be
    comparable to Nikon's kit lens in D70s, except it goes wider
    (non-interchangable lens which make really close back focus help in this
    case). Well, it is a good camera with a lens that is very adequate for
    many people.

    However, I value optical viwewfinder and interchangable lens so I have
    no interest in this camera particularly but really love seeing Sony is
    now selling a 10MP APS size camera with lens for under $1K.
     
    l e o, Sep 8, 2005
    #14
  15. deryck  lant

    Skip M Guest

    Kinda hefty, ain't it? Compare to the RebelXT/350D, at 540g, add a 17-85 IS
    lens at 475g, and you've got 8mp at 1015g and a large potential selection of
    lenses vs. 10mp, 995g and one lens...ok, and "live preview."
     
    Skip M, Sep 8, 2005
    #15
  16. deryck  lant

    Larry Lynch Guest

    Skip, you should have figured out by now, people that are interested in
    the new Sony aren't looking for a DSLR. They are looking for a
    "better" camera WITHOUT moving into the DSLR camp.

    Some of us who have moved up to a DSLR still use cameras that arent
    DSLRs, and some, like myself, wouldnt mind having a non-dslr that can do
    low light and not be full of noise.
     
    Larry Lynch, Sep 8, 2005
    #16
  17. Plus:
    - live histogram
    - optical gain in the viewfinder for low light levels
    - no mirror vibration
    - two add-on lenses are offered
    and

    - heavy for a ZLR

    I won't be upgrading just yet, but I credit Sony for breaking out of the
    mould. It will be fascinating to see if this is a one-off failure, or the
    start of a whole new range of cameras from the like of Nikon with the same
    sensor!

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Sep 8, 2005
    #17
  18. You get 10mp, 995g, one lens, and _discreetness_. Deryck wrote about
    shooting theater performances here, I wrote about shooting classical
    guitar concerts in rec.photo.zlr. If you like to do such things, it is
    a camera with unique capabilities. (Would be even better with IS,
    though).

    And wouldn't a really discreet camera with high dynamic range come in
    extremely handy in some parts of wedding shootings? (I know you do such
    stuff, so I'm really curious about your opinion.)

    Plus "live preview" means the possibility reliably to frame shots
    witout having your eye at the eyepiece. Again, this, together with the
    sensitivity of the sensor, makes shots possible that were not possible
    previously.

    Such a camera could never be my only camera. OTOH, it would complement
    my Panasonic FZ20 nicely - as long as I'm prepared to pay twice as much
    for the complemet camera as for the original one. For people who care
    about discreet indoor shooting, and OTOH don't care about shooting
    birds and butterflies, it might do well as the only camera.

    And wouldn't it actually have its place in the professional arsenal of
    a pro who needs to be discreet in situations where they can't back off
    indefinitely? Like inside the church at weddings.

    I might be wrong; it's you who are the pro, not I. But I would at least
    imagine that discreetness might have enough commercial value to justify
    the camera for some pros, until being explicitely told otherwise.

    Jan Böhme
     
    =?iso-8859-1?B?SmFuIEL2aG1l?=, Sep 8, 2005
    #18
  19. deryck  lant

    Bill Tuthill Guest

    Good analysis.

    Add these disadvantages:

    - memory stick
    - lens limited to 120mm, useless for telephoto
    - slow f/4.8 where it matters most
    - high pricetag, well over $1000 with enough memory
    - heavy at almost 1000 grams
    - only 2" LCD

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict it will be about as successful
    as the Olympus E-1 and E-300, i.e. not.
     
    Bill Tuthill, Sep 8, 2005
    #19
  20. deryck  lant

    l e o Guest


    It can use CF, from the photo. It is certainly not competing with dSLRs.
    It's meant for high end prosumer users who want quality over gadget
    features. As for the fixed lens, it's alright. Because of the larger
    sensor, the lens possibly won't have any drastic improvments in the
    later versions either. It's all come down to weight, size and cost and
    this seems to be a good compromise. However, it should include IS in the
    next version. People who really like photography would get a dSLR with
    optical viewfinder anyway, and especially at $1000, they certainly want
    to be able to change the lens!
     
    l e o, Sep 8, 2005
    #20
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