New Nikon J1/V1 sensors = half the surface area of micro 4/3rds!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Sep 21, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Worse decision, they kept the stupid 3:2 format. What an epic
    mistake. Sensor is 13.2mm x 8.8mm.
     
    RichA, Sep 21, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    Me Guest

    The V1 does in fact have A/S/M exposure options - but accessible via
    menu rather than mode button.
    Nikon claim that the hybrid AF is the fastest AF system that they've
    produced on any camera, including the D3s. (but no doubt this is helped
    by smaller format's deeper DOF and lightweight lenses)
    With all other mirrorless cameras currently produced, AF performance is
    at best, only at the level of entry-level slrs for static objects, even
    with specially designed lenses, and effectively useless for focus
    tracking on moving subjects. Nikon claim that this system is capable of
    accurate focus-tracking at 10 fps. If true, then...
    So this system isn't going to be capable of shallow DOF from larger
    sensor cameras, and will be hobbled in terms of ultimate image quality
    by the smaller format. But it looks much better on paper than what's
    been available in compact cameras, and the hopefully fast/accurate AF -
    if it lives up to the claims - should be a killer feature for the target
    market, people taking photos of their kids playing etc etc.
     
    Me, Sep 21, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Me Guest

    I don't disagree with you, but you (and I) have probably been using
    cameras of various formats and types for decades. We're not the target
    market.
    If they released this with some fast (and it would need to be really
    fast) glass at reasonable price, then maybe - but I don't think that's
    going to happen.
    I wouldn't underestimate the impact, if the AF system works as well as
    claimed. Entry level slrs - even some expensive ones like the Canon
    5DII - and compact cameras aren't very good at focus tracking, and users
    are often disappointed with the results taking photos of their kids,
    pets, etc etc. I'd wager that more users are disappointed with blurry
    out of focus shots than are disappointed by lack of ability to reduce
    DOF beyond sensor size determined limits, image noise at higher ISO, or
    ultimate resolution not being good enough for billboard-sized prints
    (IOW the limitations of smaller sensors).

    The prices do seem quite high. The 10-100mm VR would probably be a
    popular lens, but I wonder how much that costs?
     
    Me, Sep 21, 2011
    #4
  5. I can see the value of that but I belive that to Nikons main target group for
    these cameras those options (PASM) are mostly considered visual noise that
    competes with the scenes modes (sport, landscape, night) and makes the camera
    hard to understand and use.
    How is it to work with the P7100? I'm considering a V1, but I do wonder how
    it will compare to usability of a DSLR, and I assume some of the basics on
    the V1 will be inherited from the P7100.

    On my DSLR find that I do not use A/S/M very often, what I find myself doing
    frequently though is: in P mode, use the front and rear wheel to adjust the
    shutter or aperture to control depth of field and motion blur; and use exposure
    compensation button to adjust brightness.

    On a P7100, are those three, shutter, aperture, exposure comp, easily
    available, or do I need to hunt for that in the menu system? And how do
    you imagine this is solved on the V1?

    I see that there is a knob for exposure compensation on the 4-way control
    pad, and dpreview mentions[0] some rocker lever used to adjust aperture in
    A and M modes. But what about shutter control?

    [0] http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3281713418/nikon-1-system-first-impressions/2
     
    Fredrik Jonson, Sep 22, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    You obviously failed to understand that these cameras are not aimed at
    you, nor at people like you. The target market is that of people who
    take pictures but do not consider themselves photographers. People
    who shoot for Facebook.

    For people who consider themselves photographers, Nikon has an
    extensive DSLR range whose entry-level pricing is likely to be
    slightly cheaper than the more expensive of the two 1 System cameras.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    At last, someone who understands! ;-)
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    RichA Guest

    At least it's new and not just a retread.
     
    RichA, Sep 22, 2011
    #8

  9. This is probably true -- but Nikon is not the only company out there. I
    can understand them wanting to protect their cash cow, but now, instead of
    cannibalizing their core product with mirrorless cameras, they're
    potentially going to allow other companies to do so. I'm not too hip on
    the mirrorless thing myself, but it does look like it's going to be the
    future replacement for consumer DSLRs. Joe public will take reduced size
    any day.
     
    Ryan McGinnis, Sep 22, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    I would like to see the fast auto focus on the hopefully forthcoming D4.
     
    PeterN, Sep 22, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    That might be all they need, but they seem to want more. Perhaps not
    too much more, but more. Apparently the focus groups used by Nikon
    Europe have been extremely enthusiastic about the 1 Series.


    We don't know that, as prices haven't been finalised here and only
    street prices (not list prices) will tell the story. We need to wait
    until a few months after the cameras are introduced before we can draw
    any conclusions.

    [A recent example of this would be the Nikon Coolpix P7000 which ended
    up with a street price of just over half its list price. No-one could
    have predicted that before the camera even went on sale.]

    I have to say that I was very disappointed with the 1 System. The
    camera bodies look and feel very basic compared to, for example, the
    Panasonic Lumix LX-5. The finish is basic and looks cheap. The
    lettering on cameras and lenses is poorly done. The V1's viewfinder
    "hump" looks ugly and is poorly integrated with the rest of the body.
    The EVF is good, but not *that* good.

    The basic appearance means that no-one is going to be tempted away
    from a Sony NEX, nor a Panasonic or Olympus Micro Four Thirds body,
    all of which look better made and somehow far more luxurious.

    However, I was astonished by the AF performance. It is blisteringly
    fast and accurate and makes my D3 look slow. The video performance
    appears stunning. The processor is the fastest of any Nikon camera
    made so far.

    These are huge advances, but it seems very strange to find them on a
    camera with such a tiny sensor and only 10 MP in a system that is
    designed to appeal to non-photographers. It certainly won't appeal to
    enthusiastic photographers. Pros won't give it a second glance.

    The 1 System is a mass of contradictions. It will either establish a
    completely new market that does not overlap Nikon's entry-level DSLRs
    (which is Nikon's wish), or it will be a gigantic flop. I have no
    idea which.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    Don't be silly. No camera with a sensor that tiny could ever begin to
    compete with an X100, let alone an M9.
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #12
  13. Nikon made a big mistake, a long time ago, by releasing their first SLR
    with just a letter (no number). To bring balance back to the force,
    they've found it necessary now to release this new camera with just a
    number, no letter.

    :)
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 22, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    Bruce Guest


    You have to admit it's quite catchy.

    Which one do you want? The Nikon One!!
     
    Bruce, Sep 22, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Me Guest

    "Evolt", "*ist" "Rebel/Kiss"
    Please refrain from giving Nikon a hard time about the names of their
    cameras.
     
    Me, Sep 22, 2011
    #15
  16. RichA

    Me Guest

    From what I understood of how the hybrid AF works, with on-sensor phase
    detect, they don't need a pellicle system.
    They could have the technology to make an slr camera that doesn't /need/
    a mirror as AF no longer relies on it, but /includes/ a mirror in the
    design. Flip the mirror up, lift the prism out, slot in the EVF when
    that suits, or put the prism back in when the lag or resolution of the
    EVF is an impediment. Sounds good to me - have I missed something?
    The failing of most mirrorless cameras is crappy AF - especially for
    focus tracking. An EVF has advantages and disadvantages over a reflex
    OVF - and vice versa. No OVF or EVF is a joke, and an embarrassingly
    pathetic spectacle if the camera's bigger than a P&S or cellphone, but
    if you've got steady hands, can see an LCD in bright sunlight, and don't
    care if you look like a compleat idiot, then YMMV.
    If this new AF system is so revolutionary, then it perhaps makes sense
    how Nikon first release it in a clearly non-pro and slightly whacky new
    system. The D4 probably isn't too far away, and it would have been a
    great surprise if the D4 as a conventional dslr was anything more than
    an incremental improvement - as it's not so easy to improve something
    (D3s) which is still state of the art. Throw in a few more pixels
    perhaps, but tweak the CAM AF system? Perhaps they don't need to.
    If they made a D3000/5000 class mirrorless camera now - which bettered
    their flagship D3s for AF performance, they just seriously shot
    themselves in the foot. I doubt they care about Sony/Oly/Panasonic
    taking a little market from lower end dslrs. Nikon's competitor is
    Canon - and I don't see that changing any time soon.
    Makes much more sense to release something revolutionary (if that's what
    this AF system is) for the "serious market" at the top end, then filter
    it down to consumer models over time.

    Anyway that's it from me - "projecting" might be rewarded by making some
    lucky guesses, but I usually try to avoid it as my track record isn't great.
     
    Me, Sep 23, 2011
    #16
  17. Yeah, fair point.
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 23, 2011
    #17
  18. My LX3 (much smaller sensor) made really great 20x30 prints (though only
    from really great pictures, of course; and I only tried it from the very
    low ISOs).
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Sep 23, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    Guest Guest

    pentax said the * was silent and it rhymes with artist. it was supposed
    to mean all types of artists.

    they later tried to claim it was actually an acronym, for integrated
    shooting technology or something like that. originally, there was a
    film *ist and a digital *ist-d, with several successors for the digital
    version (-ds, -dl, -ds2, -dl2).

    the real problem was not how to pronounce it, but rather searching for
    information about it online. putting an * in a search query returns a
    whole lot more.
     
    Guest, Sep 23, 2011
    #19
  20. I get the feeling that pelicle mirrors are going to be the future.
    High-ISO performance has become so incredible that losing a third of a
    stop of light is negligible.


    -Ryan McGinnis
    The BIG Storm Picture: http://bigstormpicture.com PGP Key 0x65115E4C
    Follow my storm chasing adventures at http://bigstormpicture.blogspot.com
    [email protected]: http://bit.ly/oDW1pT [email protected]:http://bit.ly/aMH6Qd
     
    Ryan McGinnis, Sep 23, 2011
    #20
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