New harddisks don't boot when old harddisks are disconnected.

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Skybuck Flying, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. Hello,

    I have discovered a very serious issue with my DreamPC from 2006 (updated
    along the years because of hardware failures) for which I will seek help.

    (Computer has 4 harddisks).

    The problem is:

    When the old harddisks are disconnected the new harddisk don't boot.

    Ofcourse I tried changing boot order in bios, or tried the boot option menu
    but all of this didn't help/work which indicates a more serious issue.

    I suspect the problem is with how Windows 7 installed itself and how it
    arranged the boot program. I suspect the boot program is on an old harddisk
    instead of the new one.

    Windows 7 was installed on the new harddisk, but I suspect Windows 7 did not
    install the boot program on the new harddisk, which would be a pretty stupid
    thing for Windows to do ! So this could be a very serious issue for Windows
    7. But enough speculating there could also be other causes which I will sum
    up here so I know what to investigate:

    Possible causes:

    1. Windows 7 boot program installed on old harddisk instead of new one.

    2. ASRock motherboard has issue with booting 2 terrabyte harddisk.

    3. ASRock motherboard sata port 1 and 2 only work for booting.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 22, 2011
    #1
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  2. Oh by the way I forgot to mention a possible solution for this problem,
    which was also mentioned on the board/web site:

    1. Find the Windows 7 installation CD/DVD (?) or maybe it needs a special
    CD/DVD but try installation CD/DVD ;)

    2. Hope that the CD/DVD survived gravity and temperature fluctuations and is
    still working.

    3. Hope that the CD/DVD rom drive is still working.

    4. Hope there are no scratches on the CD/DVD ;) :)

    5. Disconnect or remove the old harddisks, but keep the new harddisks
    connected.

    6. Boot from CD/DVD via bios tweek or bios boot menu.

    7. Let Windows 7 CD/DVD boot process "repair" the installation on the new
    harddisks.

    8. Hope for the best.

    Fingers crossed.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 22, 2011
    #2
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  3. And UEFI will standardize the BIOS to the point where it will be possible
    for a generic virus to infect a flash BIOS.

    That should be a fertile new source of hallucinations for Skybuck. Some of
    them could be real.
     
    Tom Del Rosso, Sep 22, 2011
    #3
  4. Skybuck Flying

    Rich Grise Guest

    Did you format them bootable, and actually write a boot sector and OS to
    them?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
    Rich Grise, Sep 22, 2011
    #4
  5. Skybuck Flying

    JeffM Guest

    JeffM, Sep 22, 2011
    #5
  6. Skybuck Flying

    Rich Grise Guest

    I can't understand why MICRO$~1 doesn't jump on Linux and write
    some familiar 'doze eye candy and sell it.

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
    Rich Grise, Sep 22, 2011
    #6
  7. Skybuck Flying

    mike Guest

    Executive summary: don't remove fixed hard disks after installing an OS.

    I have no idea how the new stuff works, but your old stuff probably
    lets the bios assign logical drives according to the physical attachment
    of the physical drives on the various connectors.
    The OS starts with this info, then does it's own magic.
    When you add/remove anything that changes the BIOS mapping or the OS
    mapping,
    you can't expect the system to boot.
    Sometimes it's just "not found" Other times, the system will boot to the
    point that it accesses its OS mapping then pulls the rug out from
    under itself trying to access a non-existent or different physical medium.

    Bottom line, don't remove fixed hard disks after installing an OS.

    If you want removable drives, use usb or networked drives.

    Back in the days of win95, there was a boot manager that could remap
    the physical/logical relationships between hard drives. Was very useful
    for multi-booting with drives common to both. Sadly, that no longer works.
    It's also possible to add/remove a hard drive if you put it on the right
    connector relative to the boot drive, but I quit trying to do that at
    XP. SATA adds another layer of complexity. I've never been able to get
    XP to boot from a PATA drive when there's a SATA drive installed/active
    in the system. Boot order be damned, it always boots from the SATA
    drive. I have to disable the SATA in the bios to get PATA to boot.
    YMMV.

    To fix your system, here's what I'd try.
    Put back all the drives.
    This assumes they're all PATA drives...won't work with a mixture of
    pata/sata...

    There's also a BIG issue about how you installed win7.
    If you let win7 partition and format your hard drive,
    it will have an invisible partition at the beginning.
    That messes up the mapping to the point that I've never
    been able to get Acronis to restore its own backup.
    If you have the hidden partition, I think you're screwed.
    Using GPARTED to partition/format the drive eliminates
    this problem. It also makes some features of win7 not work,
    something about encrypted usb drives???
    But if your backup was from a drive with this partition,
    the following won't work. If you installed win7 on a partition
    other than the first available, it probably won't work.

    Boot it and do an image backup of the boot partition.
    The free versions of Acronis available from disk vendors works.
    If you don't have the right vendor drive, you can use a usb drive
    of the right vendor to get past the vendor check.

    Back up ALL the drives while you're at it.

    Reconfigure the hardware drives the way you want 'em.
    Boot a live linux CD or the GPARTED live cd and use
    GPARTED to partition/format your drives the way you want 'em.
    Don't forget to set the boot flag.

    Restore the backup of the boot drive to the new bootable partition.
    Depending on what you had on the other partitions and how you installed it,
    you may be able to just copy the data to the new drive with the correct
    drive letter. If the data doesn't care what drive letter it's on, don't
    worry about it.

    Again, the presence of the hidden partition can mess this all up.
    It might not work. But if your alternative is to reinstall from scratch,
    this might be worth a try.

    If you have to reinstall from scratch, I still recommend using
    gparted and eliminating that extra partition. Many won't agree...
    YMMV
     
    mike, Sep 23, 2011
    #7
  8. Skybuck Flying

    Flasherly Guest

    Wrong-o. You've officially been tagged & designated as
    contraproductive to logical assessment and within a state and limits
    of stated objectives to empiricism.

    Already did it & works. Perfectly perfectamento. Trx'd an OS from
    one computer to another. Totally different computers, two different
    model# PATA hard drives. First never saw it coming: "Hello, second
    HD." Second: "Hello, first HD, datum established. A-OK, blast off OS,
    god speed."

    Trick1: why abovesaid congeniality is only at PATA level and not
    subsequent to SATA, given SATA is provisionally supported within prime/
    perfect PATA upon establishment of MB functions, all support drivers
    [again, inclusive of SATA]. FWIW: MB-provided support SATA drivers
    *are* required, per MB specs via provisional floppy drivers, to
    install the OS;- since it doesn't, however, per se say (read the fine
    print and KISS off) they can't be used to repair a SATA install *were*
    those drivers removed, the inference then is one to find and identify
    OS offender(s), preventing their usage, differently than had an
    initial OS install, at the SATA level, been without incident and
    successful. The latter aftersaid is but one logically of stated
    preposition to qualify (I haven't gotten around to test sticking an
    adapter for a Compact Flash formatted card on the IDE chain for a
    "fanless" case system scenario, or similarly converting down a SATA
    into a IDE boot devices, with the appropriate $4 Singapore adapter,
    for as well backtesting).
     
    Flasherly, Sep 23, 2011
    #8
  9. Just for your information, these drivers are all sata drivers.

    So 4 sata drivers.

    I also do not see a reason yet why so much complexity would be needed.

    So far people have mentioned a "simple" looking solution which involves
    executing a single command from windows console which is available from the
    windows installation cd/dvd.

    Something about setting back a boot sector and boot record and master boot
    record etc...

    However I am not just going to execute any command, until I am sure what it
    does, I don't want to overwrite and damage anything on windows.

    I hope that resizing partitions is not needed, I hope that complex stuff is
    not needed.

    I am starting to fear the worst though ;)

    First I have to look into why Windows 7 installation CD/DVD does not
    recgonize the harddisks which is weird.

    The BIOS seems to recgonize the harddisks just fine.

    So my suspicion about it being a Windows 7 issue seems more than warranted !

    This is very bad of Microsoft me thinks, very bad.

    They have accured a big minus point in my mind. Yes I am keeping score you
    know.. ;) :) =D

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #9
  10. Well you electronics people are probably also to blame for this, and not
    supporting 64 bit lines, and instead being cheap skates.

    Anyway hitachi seems to be a bitch, no drivers available for my drives:
    deskstar 7K3000:

    http://www.hitachigst.com/internal-drives/desktop/deskstar/deskstar-7k3000

    It's starting to seem like another "Deathstar" LOL, but this time because of
    no driver support in windows.

    Since when do disks need drivers anyway gjez...

    But this is giving me an idea.

    I probably changed some bios setting to speed-up my drives.

    I see somebody else mention it, since other people have problems getting
    windows to recgonize this drive as well.

    The idea is to change something in the bios so that the drive becomes
    recgonizeable by windows ! ;)

    If I can get to work than maybe windows repair disk will be able to fix
    itself ?!?

    It's also strange that repair tool claims somewhat of a success while it
    could not see the drive ?!?

    ^ Again very weird from Microsoft.

    Tut tut tut... people there talking a walk with Ballmer pretending stuff
    works, while it does not ! ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #10
  11. 25. VHD's reattaching themselfes to different drive letters.

    26. Installation program for Windows 7 is flawed, console program sees my
    drives just fine by not installation program.m

    There are other things which I dont't like about Windows 7 it's easy to
    forget when I remember I ll post more perhaps ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #11
  12. Well,

    I have discovered some interesting things.

    The console program on the installation CD/DVD of Windows 7 sees the drives
    just fine.

    Conclusion:

    The installation program of Windows 7 is simply flawed, it's some kind of
    software issue to me it seems.

    I shall now continue and try the console command fix, which I shall lookup
    on google and write down on a piece of paper so I can try it when my system
    reboots.

    And then I shall report back.

    I want this problem fix as soon as possible before the old boot drive dies.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #12
  13. First of all I am not going to follow any stupid advice from people on
    boards... like a stupid bitch telling somebody to delete BCD entries... and
    then the guy does it and ofcourse it fails and then the bitch says: "oops
    now you have to do a new fresh install" ! LOL I smelled that one coming a
    mile away ! ;) :)

    And I am also not going to try the "fix master boot record" bullshit.

    Noooooo...

    Instead I am going to find my own solution, and I already found one which
    might be the easiest and most safest of all:

    Simply use "disk management tool" in windows 7 and click the harddisk which
    is supposed to be the boot disk and right click menu and select: "make
    active".

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Mark-a-partition-as-active

    Tada ! ;) :)

    I am now going to try this... this should work.

    So the problem could be as simple as selecting which disk to boot from
    that's all.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #13
  14. Ok,

    I learned something interesting things:

    1. Making a disk/volume/partition/whatever active which does not contain a
    "boot manager" is the stupidste fokking thing I could have ever done,
    especially since I am dealing with the biggest retards in the world
    Microsoft:

    This one little command made my computer unusuable and led to the by now
    famous windows vista/windows seven problem:

    "bootmgr is missing"

    2. Google sux for old systems.

    I assembled my PentiumIII 450 mhz and brought it to it's grave(?)final
    resting place(?).

    Instead I used my old pentium 166 mhz with windows 98 and IE5...

    Surprise surprise, IE5 crashes because of stupid google quick typing java
    script bullshit.

    Fortunately Microsoft's search engine: Bing saved the day and IE5 does work
    with Bing.

    Microsoft probably got lucky there or maybe they tested it... +1 for
    Microsoft -1 for Google.

    3. I tried a couple of things and nothing worked.

    4. Finally I read about "diskpart"

    It's a command from the console which can be used to reactive the proper
    partition so I can at least go back into windows 7 and figure out how to
    solve this problem.

    It went something like this:

    Step 1: diskpart
    Step 2: list volumes
    Step 3: select volume X
    Step 4: list partitions
    Step 5: select partition 1
    Step 6: active

    Then I had to reboot computer and go to the bios boot menu and select 1 out
    of 4 harddisks. Because of disconnecting and reconnecting this menu changed.

    So I decided to try all 4. Fortunately the third harddisk seemed to boot
    back into windows from disk.

    So I reconfigured the boot menu so now at least I can boot back into
    windows.

    5. Knoppix 3.1 beta doesn't have decent internet support, or at least it
    doesn't detect the onboard motherboard ethernet chips. So it's useless and
    old.

    I must get a nice operating system which works from CD/DVD for emergencies
    like this so at least I can browse the internet properly for solutions.

    I got lucky my Pentium 166 even worked and wasn't immediatly infected, so
    far it's still running.

    6. The problem remains unsolved for now.

    Microsoft gets -1.000.000 points for creating this situation.

    What a bad mess.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #14
  15. 27. Dialogs pop-up while typing leading to dangerous situations.

    28. Disc burning tool does not store verification/burn results in log file,
    now I don't know what happened.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #15
  16. 29. Windows 7 disc burning tool is unable to verify DVD after the program
    has been closed ?!

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #16
  17. Found this tool:

    ISO Recorder... apperently it adds itselfs to the shell, and then context
    popup menu can be used.

    I am now making iso again from DVD so I can verify if the ISO's are the
    same.

    Now I quickly stop typing in case that tool displays a stupid pop-up too !
    ;)

    (The tool had some lag/freeze issues at first but seems to be working now)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #17
  18. Indeed there seems to be a problem with the dvd:

    recording has failed... blabla...

    Two explanations:

    1. Burn failed.

    2. Download failed, embarcodero claims IE9 cannot handle 2+ GB downloads.. I
    say hogwash to that... but perhaps there is some truth in it...

    Well this is just great... more problems... just what I needed Microsoft
    thanks man !

    Bye,
    Skybug.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #18
  19. Unbelieveable, second burn failed too, or at least the verification didn't
    start.

    There is also a visual bar missing to indicate how long the bar really
    is....

    Is it too much to draw a fricking 2d bar ?!

    Auto play seem to be running weird, dvd not coming out.

    Another nice microsoft fok up..

    It's like 50% of microsoft software not working, pretty typical.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #19
  20. Now the DVD refuses to come out of the DVD drive ?!? By pressing the button
    on the front of the drive ?!?!

    CAN YOU BELIEVE IT ?! WOW.

    My next PC will be runnung ubuntu or so if this shit doesnt improve with
    windows 8.

    I will be running windows 8 in a virtual environment from ubuntu.

    And if windows 8 is any good, maybe I will switch to it.

    But from today onwards Microsoft has lost all my confidence.

    And Steve Ballmer is apperently a douchebag.

    He's playing with metro while his main operating system is full with bugs
    and shit.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, Sep 23, 2011
    #20
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