New EF-S Lenses and Bodies?

All,

Does anyone think that Canon will add EF-S mounts to future new 10D or 1Ds
body?

Personally, I think it would be a great idea, that way, they could release a
L series EF-S lenses like a "EF-S 18-55mm USM L" or similar that would be
for instance, much smaller than the current 24-70mm USM L.

It appears the EF-S mount is in response to the FourThirds system before it
gets off the ground. It offers similar advantages, smaller lenses and
optimized for the APS sized sensor. It would also allow Canon to
standardize on the smaller cheaper APS sized sensor in all its bodies while
still allowing backwards compatibility with existing EF lenses.

Any opinions?

Danny.

 

The 1Ds is already a full frame camera - there's no reason to adapt the EF-S
format to it. I think EF-S will be a mount only for entry-level digi-SLRs,
or maybe for the Digital Rebel alone. The cost of making sensors bigger
will drop over time. First, I think we'll see a 1.3x crop follow-up to the
10D and within 5 years we'll have full frame for under $2k. Just MHO.

Mark

 

Possibly the 10D, but it wouldn't work for the full frame !D, which to me is
fine, as the 1D is oriented toward the seasoned user, which probably has a bag
full of EF glass. I would guess all future APS sized sensor DSLRs will include
the S mount.

The APS sized formats would well deserve its own smaller, lighter, cheaper lens

Bingo! I've been saying this for months. Even professionals look for smaller,
lighter cameras as their traveling, (essentially), point and shooters. It's
nice they can occasionally use their old EF glass, as they may desire.

Yes, I think the 2 formats (full frame and APS size) will flourish and grow for
a long time to come. I don't see the APS sensor cameras ever becoming full
frame, any more than 35mm shooters all going to medium format. After all, why
would anyone pay the price to get better than 'plenty good enough'? Many 10D
and 300D users claim it's plenty good now.

Steve Young

 

Steve,
I agree, the APS size sensor is not a flash in the pan, it's here
to stay. Not everybody needs or wants wide angle lens so coming out with a
new smaller lens line (EF-S) was a very wise move.

This may sound strange to some but the largest attraction to the new
Digital Rebel for me was the 1.6x lens factor because for me it means I can
use a small light weight 50mm f1.8 or even f1.4 lens & get similar results
from it as I would have from a larger much more costly 80mm with a full size
senor camera.

True an APS size sensor will not produce equal quality results as a full
size senor (all other factors being equal) but as you have stated; "Many 10D
and 300D users claim it's plenty good now."

Do wish the 300D had a true "user selectable spot metering mode" but I
will make due without it. It's a fairly minor feature to give up compared
to the price difference between it & the 10D.

Just my 2 cents worth.

DHB

 

Someone agrees with me! Not to mention that APS sized sensors with 20
megapixels will most likly be aviable in 10 years no worries.

Danny.

 

1Ds: definitely not (sensor too large)
10D (or other APS-size): maybe not

Observe that Canon does not sell the EF-S 18-55
separately. Why? It's not like there won't be
more than a few people who buy or are given a
300D without it, and then decide they want one.

Was this the plan all along, or did late testing
discover a massive problem, such as...

If you mount this lens on a non-S camera, is
there some risk of damage to camera, lens or
both?

Canon may just sweep this EF mount variant under
the rug. They might also re-work it to either
eliminate the damage risk, or just make it
impossible to mount on incompatible cameras
(but just calling it "EF" ensures some amount
of dissatisfaction for anyone buying an EF-S
or "EF-S2" lens separately.

EF-S may be an experiment.
It may already have failed.

None of which is any reflection on that lens
per se. If I buy a 300D, I'll certainly get one.

--
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Bob Niland Enterprise
mailto: Kansas USA
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Unless otherwise specifically stated, expressing
personal opinions and NOT speaking for any
employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

 

Bob,
good point about the EF-S camera lens design which I had not
considered. As I understand it, it extends deeper into the body of the
Digital Rebel / 300D camera & can be made smaller in part because it's uses
of a rear focusing lens group. Thus it is possible that since the sensor is
smaller, the mirror may also be smaller & thus not hit the back of the lens
when it pivots out of the way to take a picture.

If you are correct & this is a potential problem, it may be a huge
oversight that a lot of people at Canon failed to consider. If true than I
am not sure which of 2 possibilities would be worst;

<1> Knowing that Canon may have known this from the start but it was the
only way to offer such a camera / zoom lens kit for just under $1,000 USD &
turn a healthy profit in large volume sales.

OR

<2> Knowing that so many otherwise very smart engineers & managers & etc. at
Canon failed to consider how a new lens design would effect all the other
models it might be used on.

My hope is that this new EF-S lens design does not pose a problem if
used on other cameras aside from poor performance. This may simply have
been a temporary lens design intended only to sell a DSLR with a lens for
under $1000 USD with the hope that you will have to buy either a replacement
lens when the kit lens fails or is damaged or when you simply want something
better that goes beyond the basic zoom range of this lens.

However the EF-S lens issue works out I still believe that the APS size
sensor will be with us for a long time to come whether or not they increase
it's MP density or not. Most of what I want to do with the camera would
benefit from the 1.6X lens multiplication factor because I could use
smaller, lighter, faster & less expensive lenses to fill most of my
photographic needs.

Hopefully I am not the only person who feels this way.

DHB

 

They appear to be selling it in OZ
http://www.canon.com.au/products/cameras_lenses_accessories/standard_zoom_lenses/efs1855mmf3556.html

And I noticed the other day the EF lenses had a Red line up mark and the
EF-S has a white one, could they be Keyed differently to avoid damage ?

Andrew

 

Not for 1Ds, maybe for the 10D replacement.

I think that would be a bad idea. How much do you spend on lenses that may
or may not fit the next camera you buy? If I buy a camera in 5 years time
to replace my 10D, it could well be using a full frame sensor. I’d be more
comfortable spending my money on lenses that will work with any Canon EOS
body.

 

I wonder. My current plan is to get the 300D and collect lenses, then
at some point in the future, move to whatever replaces the 10D,
whenever/whatever that is.

I'm coming from an Olympus C2100UZ. The jump to the 10D is too much,
and the 300D fits nicely in the middle as my first SLR camera.

But I'm a bit leery of collecting EF-S lenses if they might not work
with the 10D's replacement. I don't want to get stuck on the
"consumer" side and I haven't worked out whether the 300D and the EF-S
mount lenses represents a fork in the road and is "just" a high-end
consumer camera. The lens that comes with the 300D did not look as
nice/high quality sitting next to the EF lenses in the display case.

So... which is it? EF-S is the future for Canon, or stay with the EF
lenses if I hope to upgrade to the "next" 10D? (Kind of a moot point
right now, AFAIK there is only the one EF-S lens in existence!)

 

I would stay with the convention EF lenses if you have any plans to upgrade
beyond the digital Rebel. There is a much better selection of them, anyway.

 

Like you said, there's only one EF-S lens right now. Even if Canon comes
out with more, there's still a much wider selection of EF lenses available.
I have no doubt that full frame sensor DSLRs will come down in price
eventually, so sticking with EF lenses is a good idea.

Mark

 

I had the same plan and already purchased the Digital Rebel. Wish I
would have spent the extra on the current 10D. My Rebel does not offer
manual flash compensation. Outdoor fill flash photos can't be tweeked.
Predictive autofocus can't be set. Idiot sports mode uses predictive
autofocus, but locks ISO to 400. ISO 400 image quality is poor.

 

I have just bought 300d. i take your points but cannot agree on 400
iso image quality being poor.Just having moved on from Minolta 7i, I
was amazed how good 400 iso images were although obviously I prefer
lower settings when light permits. peter.

 

I'm torn... think I'll get the 1.7x teleconverter for the Uzi [Olympus
C2100UZ] and think about the 10D/300D for a while longer!

I assume you mean turning the dial to the "little man running"? These were
all taken on that setting with the Uzi:
http://www.pbase.com/wendywds/20031004scottsdale

*However* every single one of them is at 100 ISO. What would those same
pics look like at 400? I Googled, but it didn't make sense... 400 is
"faster" film, so wouldn't you WANT that for a faster shutter speed?

The 300D manual pdf says that a low ISO is not suitable for freezing
action... yet that's what I've been doing for the past year and a half.
The Uzi has 200 and 400 ISO, yet it always picks 100 for action shots in
sunlight. Something isn't adding up. If 400 was better, I'd expect the
Uzi to have picked it.

Still, I am now graduating from "Idiot Sports Mode" and using the manual
settings more. In manual mode on the 300D, are there any limitations to
mixing and matching the shutter/aperture/ISO settings? If the only problem
is that they messed up the preset mode, I think I can live with that.

 

The original poster needs to spend more time with the manual. You can force
a change of FEC by +/- 2 EV using the Remote 10D software and judging by
the number of complaints Canon is receiving about the lack of FEC, I have a
feeling they will re-enable it in the next firmware update. As for
predictive autofocus, you can enable it in any mode by just moving the
camera back and forth, you can also force it by using the manual focusing
ring on a lens with FTM. If the original poster had poor quality at iso 400
then he either had a faulty camera or is doing something wrong, my shots at
iso 400 have less noise than my last P&S had at iso 100. In manual mode you
have full control over shutter speed, aperture and iso and there is nothing
messed up about Sports mode, it works as it was designed to do. The more I
use my 300D the more I am amazed at what it can do.

Rob.

 

Canon might or might not make more cameras with the EF-S mount but they will
have to have the smaller mirror to work, therefore it is not going to be a
retro-fit - the body will have to be designed for the mount.

--
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A sample chapter from my novel "Haight-Ashbury" is at
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You can use a non-ETTL automatic flash instead:
http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#flash

http://digitcamera.tripod.com/#slr