New computer - how to transfer old system across?

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Bazzer Smith, Apr 22, 2006.

  1. Bazzer Smith

    kony Guest

    You are oversimplifing things and a USB cable should not be
    connected between two systems, it can damage one or both of
    them. There needs be the bridge(s) inbetween the two
    systems in the cable if not a separate box the two cables
    plug into.

    It would be rather silly to hack something like that
    together so in the end you had the inferior USB to use.
    There are USB network adapters if you are really wanting to
    use USB when inappropripate.


    Yes it is, because of the details.
    You can haul 10 tons of bricks back and forth on a moped or
    a truck and "do the same job" but would you use the moped?

    I guess you just don't get it. You would be wise to just
    learn from those who have been down this road before. The
    entire world does know what they're doing and does choose to
    use something other than USB whenever possible.

    Didn't you have the cable modem hooked up to a network
    adapter? Surely the new system has one, so at worst you
    need a single network adapter for the old system.

    "Big learning curve"? You must be joking. The learning
    curve would be trying to hack out something instead of doing
    it the easy way. You still have all the issues of
    networking the two systems because even with the cable,
    that's what you are essentially doing.

    You are just trying to be difficult, and it's a waste of
    time. You asked and were given the correct answer but do
    whatever you want, we don't have to live with the results.

    There are always some nuts out there that make things hard
    on themselves. Pretty ludicrous when network adapters are
    as common and cheap as dirt.

    I suppose I'm just perplexed that you want to go to extra
    effort towards an inferior result. Makes no sense,
    networking is not new and this is very easy. In my opinion,
    you are the last person who should decide what to use if you
    feel networking is a learning curve still. I don't mean to
    be insulting with that, but rather looking at getting the
    job done in a straightforward, proven effective manner that
    is proven to work the best. We don't just use network
    adapters for the heck of it, they really are engineered to
    do this exact specific thing, it is the reason they exist.
    I disagree, you can't be very concerned about security if
    you're not using a router. It is the first step towards
    security, some would even argue it's reckless to have a
    windows system on the internet at all if not behind a router
    or even more layers of network.


    Networking would be a good thing for you to learn. The
    world is evolving, everthing will "want" to be networked
    together evermore every year. Might as well learn it when
    you have a need or benefit- which is now. It's really not
    hard to set up a basic 2 system network using a modem for
    internet access, there are even online tutorials that give
    specific directions for particular routers or ISPs'
    configurations.
     
    kony, Apr 25, 2006
    #21
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  2. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest

    As I explained I just wanted to copy some file accross without
    buying any hardware. I don't want a network at the moment,
    or Rolls Royce either, although it would be nice to have one.
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 25, 2006
    #22
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  3. Your zero-cost method for doing that would be to to install the HD from the old
    computer as secondary slave on the new. You could move it back after the copy or
    leave it in as your new computer's bios probably will let you boot from it there
    if you want to. You might like to try that and use your spare HD in the old
    computer.

    You could take the usb approach. I did about 5 years ago, Buslink brand, and the
    box with the cable & software has been sitting out in my garage ever since as
    it's realistically a one-time use by its nature. Your cost would perhaps be
    around £8.

    You could temporarily connect the 2 computers by a Cat5/6 cable long enough for
    the job, maybe the one you use for the cable modem. A little setup and you're
    ready to copy. That would involve all your network settings though and could be
    a headache to setup & restore. From what you've said, it doesn't sound like you
    want to get involved with that.

    You could save the £8 from a usb purchase and use it towards a wired router. If
    your computers are close enough for usb, then you don't need a wireless and the
    wired ones are a lot cheaper (check Ebay .uk). The benefits are severalfold in
    that you can use it the as your connection between the 2 computers to copy
    files, both computers connect to the internet at the same time, and you get the
    hardware-firewall benefits of the router. In regard to that last, it means that
    you're wearing a seatbelt which you might do whether you were driving a RR or a
    MC.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Apr 25, 2006
    #23
  4. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest


    Thats what I am currently doing, its only 2 meg though so only holds 3 cds
    worth.
    Other disk is 3.5 (or 3) meg but thats the master.
    Maybe but I would rathernot buy anything.
    Maybe would need to look into it.
    I remember many years ago (when I was a programmer, still am
    but unpaid!!) transfering data between computers
    down a printer (RS232C) cable, can't see why I can't do that.
    I don't care how long it takes!!.
    Yes but I don't really know what I would like in that area (wireless or
    wired etc..)
    I would need to look into it. I mean I don't want to ruch out and buy a
    Silver Ghost and
    then find I would be better off with a Corniche.
    I just want a cheap way to connect the computers. What about the
    the ethernet port? Would that work? I don't see why not?
    I mean my computer can and does act as a client and a server etc
    so I think there should be a reall easy way to do it, but then
    companies don't make money out of easy solutionns!!
    The old computer doesn't have a ethernet port, I was going to
    buy one today for £10 but I chickened out at the last moment
    cos I suspect there will be some reason it won't work.
    Thanks for you input anyway I will look into some of the
    suggestions.


    The weirdest think is the CD player will only read some
    disks on the new computer, but virtually all on the old computer.
    You would not have thouogh it would make any diference but
    that is why these computer companies are paid billions (so nothing
    works properly),
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 25, 2006
    #24
  5. Then swap the drive in long enough to copy everything off of it. Your new system
    must have at least 40GB so it won't even notice the 3.5 and you can later delete
    what you don't need. Zero cost and very little trouble.
    Just buy the cheapest one you can find. You can sell it whenever you decide to
    upgrade or throw it away.
    That's what I was talking about above. Cat5/6 is ethernet cable. However, that
    would involve all the networking setup that you said you didn't want any part
    of. Best to just swap in the hard drive and avoid all that.
    Sure it has one. That's the one you used to connect to the modem.
    Nothing weird or unusual about that at all. It's actually quite common for CD's
    that were burned on one drive to be unreadable in another. "Verify" is there to
    make sure that they will even read on the very same drive. Then just pray that
    they will read on that same drive when the time comes that you need them.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Apr 25, 2006
    #25
  6. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest

    I have already done that, I have copied both driver onto my old machine,
    however I have a pile of stuff on CD I want to get on the new machine
    (so I can burn to DVD and save space).
    But you have just given me an idea which seems like a really simply
    solution to most of the problem. Why don't I put the big 80 gig drive
    of the new machine into the old machine (as a slave, then I can
    read files to that drive via the CD drive, which will read the CDs
    when used in the old machine. That would save a lot of drive swopping.
    My one fear is that I might somehow screw up the new drive so it
    would not work. Also the old machine might not like such a big drive.
    I may try it if I feel brave!!.

    I didn't realise that.
    No it was the cost that put me off, I don't mind configuring it etc..
    Or at least trying, I might learn something.
    MAybe I should have bought that Ethernet card then. Rhe old machine
    did not have one. I *assume* if I buy one it will work in it?

    No it's via USB.

    No but it is the *same* drive!!! I swapped the drive into the new machine
    but it would then only read half of the disks (or less) it would read when
    in
    the old machine.
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 25, 2006
    #26
  7. Bazzer Smith

    kony Guest


    I'd hardly call $5- $25 worth of hardware a Rolls Royce but
    here are the other factors:

    - You have two systems and it might be useful to have
    multiple system internet acess.

    - It is more secure, something you expressed a desire
    towards, to have even one system behind a router instead of
    directly connected to the cable modem.

    - It facilitates the file copying, without having to swap
    discs back and forth so it's easier, and unless there are
    several gigs of data, quicker.

    - One proposal you made was using USB. Male-male usb cords
    to do this aren't supposed to exist because there are not to
    be connected directly to each system's USB port. A special
    bridge device with USB plugs on it could be, but you
    (apparently) dont' have this device and it would again be
    more hardware to purchase and a minor learning curve like
    anything else.

    - You also lacked the software, another bit of time to
    spend tracking it down and learning it, and possible expense
    if it's not free. Fortunately many ready-made USB bridge
    devices may include this software but they may be more
    expensive, the more common is that the bridge is treated as
    two network adapters and thus you still have the same
    learing for networking, but none of the benefits of the
    similar cost router you could choose instead.

    - It's not that what you would do wouldnt' work, but
    rather, there is a better way that is not unduely difficult
    or expensive, indeed is the preferred choice by world plus
    dog.
     
    kony, Apr 25, 2006
    #27
  8. You haven't said anything about your cpu & motherboard unless it was in some
    previous post, but with a HD as small as 4GB, you can be assured that the bios
    will not handle an 80GB HD.
    But it's money down the drain.
    and that's the *only* connector on the modem?
    That could be a number of things including the wrong driver for it being
    installed.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Apr 26, 2006
    #28
  9. Bazzer Smith

    kony Guest

    While that is true, in the *4GB* drive era, the most common
    (Intel OEM) boards did later provide bios updates to support
    up to 128GB.
     
    kony, Apr 26, 2006
    #29
  10. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest

    But you haven't any evidence such hardware exists. Which hardware?
    Can you supply a link?
    Otherwise thats of no help whatsoever.

    Not for the moment it would just complicate things I think.
    Ah a router so thats another $80 then unless you have a link
    to prove otherwise, word are cheap I need evidence.
    Seems like it is easier to do it via ethernet.
    I think this page shows how.
    http://www.razertech.com/edge/hardware/crossover/crossover.htm
    All it requires is the crossover cable which should be real cheap
    its just some wires crossed over.
    Here is the proof £1+£1 P&P
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Crossover-Cat...715043732QQcategoryZ57188QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    I actualy already have a nornal cable which I could use by cutting it open
    and crosing it over my self, however the cable belonogs to my ISP and
    they would want it back if I left them.

    I beleive that then it might just be a question of 'configuring' the network
    which may be easy enough to do, just a question of enabling permission
    maybe.
    When configured the hard drives on my other computer would appear on
    the computer I was using as if they were there physically, and vice versa.
    I have used a system like this before (but not set it up).
    The only problem one computer does not have and ethernet port but I
    think I just need to buy a card and insert it in the computer.
    Also the old computer is W98 which might not be so capable as XP.
    It also might not have networking capability in that fashion, I don't
    know for sure.
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 26, 2006
    #30
  11. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest

    and very little trouble.

    Just as well I didn't try then, I had subconsiously ruled it out (initally
    anyway).
    Explain why?
    Why does the new computer have one if it is 'money down the drain'?

    No the modem has both but the old comp only has a USB connection.

    Maybe but then you would not expect it to work for some disks and not
    others (perhaps), and I mean disks of the same brand, some work, some don't.

    Also it should work of a standard driver else it could never read its own
    installation disk!!
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 26, 2006
    #31
  12. Sounds like you agree with my given odds though. :)

    Funny thing is that I have trouble with that 4GB drive. Out in my garage is a
    Gateway 2000 P-133 (P54C Pentium 3.3v), 1998 vintage, later upgraded to P-233
    with a Promise kit. It ran with an 8.4GB WD drive max and, when it came to
    running a 30GB drive, it was necessary to buy & use a Promise controller as
    there was no upgrade to the AMI Bios and it was flashed for other purposes.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Apr 26, 2006
    #32
  13. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest

    The original drive was 2gig then I put a 3 or 3.5gig in as master.
    I don't think I will try it though, I have done quite a bit manually by not
    but there is stilll a pile of really old stuff I could do but I expect
    most of those disks are duffers by now.
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 26, 2006
    #33
  14. It's only a waste for the old machine where you would never have another use for
    it. I'm assuming you plan on retiring that one.
    Ok. Then you can't use the ethernet cable approach without spending money.
    But you said it made a difference if the drive was installed in a different
    machine?
    One would think so eh? I can't comment since I have no idea whatsoever what
    installation processes were or were not performed.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Apr 26, 2006
    #34
  15. Bazzer Smith

    kony Guest


    Ok, but consider that it was not typical to have a 4GB drive
    in a P-133 system. 1-2GB was more common... 4GB was more of
    the base config for P2 system which was what Gateway sold in
    late '97 early '98 for the most part. I recall buying such
    a system in '97 that had P2-233 and a 4GB WD drive that
    failed about two months later and was replaced at that
    point. I may even have the motherboard from that box in the
    basement somewhere, was an Intel Atlanta AL440LX
     
    kony, Apr 26, 2006
    #35
  16. Bazzer Smith

    kony Guest


    I was under the impression you weren't in a 4th world
    country. There are no network adapters (I don't recall,
    doesn't at least one if not both systems have one already?)
    or routers in your region for sale?

    You should literally be able to go to any electronics shop
    that has a reasonable stock of computer equipment and find
    a router that would work. The remaining issue is only one
    of finding the best price and I can't estimate what your
    time is worth. Presuming you have local newspapers with
    advertisments that might be one way to find a good price.

    if you just want examples, here are some,
    NICs,
    http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=100MB+PCI+network+adapter&hl=en&btnG=Search+Froogle
    Routers,
    http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=802.11g+router&hl=en&btnG=Search

    The key features that I would look for (given you express no
    need for advanced feature sets) are;

    - 100MB LAN (it is the default, practically all support
    this)

    - 4 or more port switch integral (again practically all
    have this, see the pictures for how many RJ45 jacks it has)

    - Wifi 802.11g (54Mbps) You have expressed no need but this
    is such a common wireless protocol and adds little to the
    cost in most cases, it is a feature worth having for any
    possible future wireless needs when they arise, for example
    a notebook system is a great way to make use of this if not
    some remote system you can't or don't want to string cable
    to.
    I suggest that it's only seemingly complicated because you
    avoid doing it. For the most part it is automated, these
    consumer grade routers are targeted at people doing the
    exact same thing you are, hooking it up to a modem and two
    (or more) systems in a lan. It is a good skill to know how
    to do this and once you know it takes about 3 minutes to do
    it. With a default windows installation it's already mostly
    done, but the file folder on the old system would be
    designated as shared with file sharing enabled. Google is a
    wonderful tool to find how to do this quickly.

    I'm getting a bit apathetic about proving this, if you want
    to make things harder on yourself in the long run, go ahead
    and do so.
     
    kony, Apr 26, 2006
    #36
  17. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest


    Probably but it was very good for 8 years or so but the bloated applications
    do cripple it now.
    Its find for well written software but there aint much of that about these
    days.
    Even some websites seriously slow it up, currys.co.uk is one, takes a
    minute
    to open a simple menu, but the java "do nothing" scrips is suspicious, they
    sell
    computers and I think they do it to encourage u to buy a new one!!
    True, but maybe only £5 and it could do with an ethernet port, someone told
    me
    it was less overhead on the computer but I doubt it makes much difference.
    Yes in the old machine it reads 95% of my CD's in the new one it reads
    about 35%. It should read the same %age in both IMO.
    It's a CDRW and comes with its disk for NERO which it needs for burning
    CD's. It should be able to *read* disks with a 'standard driver, otherwise
    you could never
    install nero.
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 26, 2006
    #37
  18. Bazzer Smith

    kony Guest

    You need to stop assuming you know something before even
    trying it. USB is the last interface you should use for
    anything if you have another option (for firewire, ATA,
    SATA, PCI, PCI express, etc).
     
    kony, Apr 26, 2006
    #38
  19. That rang a bell and I did some checking. The m/b in this system is an Aladdin
    BR0T bios, the predecessor 440FX I believe, and it's a bit older than I
    remembered it being - purchased Aug 1995. The drives for it are a 1.6, 6.4, and
    8.4GB, so the 6.4 & 8.4 must have been added later. It was a good system in its
    time.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Apr 26, 2006
    #39
  20. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest

    I am not really famiiliar with the technology yet, even for
    'network adapters' there is a huge range in price.

    I just don't want to spend money and fiind I have wasted it thats all.

    If I do go for a network I would spend some effort researching it
    to get the best (value?) for me, that would take me some time.
    Incidently wireless sounds very insecure to me!!

    I know a lot of things turn out to be real simple when you have
    done them once but sometimes when you google you pick up
    on all the problems people have had. People tend to post about
    problems more than thinks which went smoothly!!
    Not trying to make things hard, but at the moment my other
    computer is a Cryix MII 300, would you spend money to network this?
    The router would probably cost more than that computer is worth now!!!
    So I effectively only have one computer and no real need for a network
    at the moment. I was thinking of giving it away when I had tranferred
    the data, I am only using itnow because the CD drive mysteriously works
    better
    in it, and obviously I am very familiar with it and all the data and
    programs stored
    on iit.
    BAsically I want to get my CD data onto DVD's so I can bin the CD's.
     
    Bazzer Smith, Apr 26, 2006
    #40
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