Need Help Shooting Artwork with a Canon 1 ds

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by bob, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. bob

    bob Guest

    I am getting major color shifting. I am using 1000 ws second studio
    flash. I have set the camera to adobe rgb but I am confused by
    statments in the manual that says this camera does not imbed adobe rgb
    it has to be applied?? What are they meaning by that and any other
    help on getting closer color would help. I am using a calibrated
    mointer and I have tested it. That is NOT the problem.


    bob, Jul 20, 2005
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  2. bob

    Canongirly Guest

    Have you set the white balance?

    Easy way to do this is set white balance to auto, and switch off the auto
    focus.(Canon AF relys on contrast you going to frame up and focus ona white
    surface and the AF will hunt like crazy otherwise)

    Get a regular sheet of white paper for your printre,/photocopier whatever
    and put that where the subject would be, frame up so that occupies the
    centre of the viewfinder but doesn't fill the frame, focus manually, and
    fire off a couple of frames under the desired lighting (ie with the strobes)
    to get a decent exposure. (i.e. so it isn't flashing on the lcd screen
    indicating overexposure).

    Then in the menus (not sure where on a 1ds, set the white balance to custom
    and select the desired frame, press ok,

    Come out of the menus and set the wb on the thumbwheel to custom (check user
    manual), switch your auto focus back on and that should solve the colour
    shift problem for you.
    Canongirly, Jul 20, 2005
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  3. bob

    Bill Hilton Guest

    bob writes ...
    AdobeRGB is a 'working space' and isn't causing this problem. As
    Canongirly points out, you need to set the proper white balance. There
    is a pre-set for 'flash', which should be pretty accurate and give you
    the right colors. Or you can set a "custom" white balance as
    Canongirly explained.

    If you shot RAW files then just open what you have in a good converter
    and there should be white balance menu choices for flash, shade,
    daylight, tungsten, etc ... switch to flash and quite likely your
    problem will be fixed even on images already shot. If you didn't shoot
    RAW but instead shot jpeg (bad move) then you're stuck with whatever
    white balance setting was applied at the time of shooting.
    It means you apply it later in the flow when you convert the RAW file
    to tiff. This is normal. I think you are confusing the white balance
    setting and it's effects on color with the working space setting, which
    is entirely different.

    Bill Hilton, Jul 20, 2005
  4. bob

    ASAAR Guest

    Sounds like a good solution, but it made me wonder if there isn't
    a slightly easier way to do this where you don't have to switch off
    the auto focus? If you use a black marker to add a few thin
    horizontal and vertical lines to the center of the white paper it
    might average to a very slight gray, but much lighter than a
    standard 18% gray card. Maybe equivalent to a 1% or 2% gray card.
    It would allow the auto-focus to operate and wouldn't cause a color
    shift. Anyone worried about losing a bit of brightness could
    compensate by using a high brilliance sheet of paper, but I don't
    think that this would be necessary. Turning the AF off and then
    back on again is probably easy enough, but if lighting is varied
    often so that resetting the WB is a frequent chore, it might help to
    have this custom WB card on hand.
    ASAAR, Jul 20, 2005
  5. bob

    Canongirly Guest

    I haven't personally tried it but I've read that the plastic top off a
    pringles tin placed over the lens will also work.

    Dunno how having balck marker pen marks on the white sheet would actually
    effect white balance...might do might not.

    I shoot a lot of portraits on location so I've just developed a workflow
    method whereby the setting of the white balance is part of my set up
    routine, takes all of 15 secounds to do and saves HOURS of post processing
    correction work later.
    Canongirly, Jul 20, 2005
  6. bob

    ASAAR Guest

    I'm sure it would, but wouldn't the AF still cause hunting?

    You could try a mix of thin red, blue and green lines. :) And
    you're right, it might produce slightly different results, but I
    think it there were any it would lie somewhere between negligible
    and unmeasurable. Probably comparable to the difference you might
    get with two sheets of white paper having slightly different
    brightness ratings.

    No need to change a simple routine that works well. I, on the
    other hand shoot pictures infrequently enough so that I occasionally
    get bitten by a bad WB. At least when it happens now I take
    corrective action almost immediately, as opposed to the mess I made
    years ago when I got my first P&S, Canon's Powershot S10. I assume
    that I'll eventually settle into enough of a routine that forgetting
    to take care of the WB will be a thing of the past. But that means
    getting out with the camera more often. :)
    ASAAR, Jul 20, 2005
  7. bob

    Colin D Guest

    It was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but it bears repeating. RAW
    mode, at least with Canon cameras, applies nothing to the image. Color
    space, white balance, ISO, are all applied when decoding from RAW to TIF
    or JPG (ugh!) in Zoombrowser or other similar software - though I prefer
    ZB in spite of its clunkiness because it is tailored specifically for
    Canon cameras.

    Colin D, Jul 21, 2005
  8. bob

    Bill Hilton Guest

    Colin writes ...
    Agree with all except ISO, which is fixed when you shoot.
    Bill Hilton, Jul 21, 2005
  9. bob

    bob Guest

    Thank you for the help. I have tried using the custom white balance
    with white paper and using the flash white balance setting with no
    difference noticed in my problem. However I have not shot raw yet as
    I have not the software. But I will get it and try that! You
    answered my question as to how to apply adobe rgb. It must fiorst be
    shot in ram and I need the canon software. That is my next step. For
    noew using selective color is working to adjust each image. BTW I do
    know the difference btwn color space and white balance, I guess I was
    trying to see if either was contributing to my problem. Obviously the
    WB is probably more of the issue. I also noticed that my camera has
    selectable K temp and defaults to 5200, should I try 55oo to try and
    match my 1000ws defused strobes??? thanks

    bob, Jul 23, 2005
  10. bob

    JohnR66 Guest

    ISO huh? Just how wide do you think the dynamic range of the sensor is?
    JohnR66, Jul 23, 2005
  11. bob

    Colin D Guest

    Well, I may be wrong here, but as I see it, it's wide enough to
    accommodate a photon range between highlights at 100 ISO to shadows at
    3,200, a range of 11 or 12 stops, or about 4092:1. Where within that
    range the a/d converter operates is dependent on the amplification
    applied to the sensor output. With jpg's the amplification is fixed,
    with RAW it can be varied in the converter.

    Colin D, Jul 24, 2005
  12. bob

    Bill Hilton Guest

    bob writes
    Bob, you can download a free RAW converter from pixmantec called RSE
    that actually does a better job than the Canon software in most ways.
    Probably better off with 6500K or using the 'flash' built-in WB
    setting. Note that you need to have flash as the main light source by
    several stops, ie, if the ambient light is say equal or within two
    stops to the flash then you'll have two different colors (3200 or 3400K
    from room lights, for example). Mixing the color balance of the light
    sources complicates the issue.

    Bill Hilton, Jul 24, 2005
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