My three biggest camera mistakes

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, May 4, 2014.

  1. RichA

    Guest Guest

    there's no need, since it's quite clear.
     
    Guest, May 14, 2014
    #41
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  2. RichA

    Guest Guest

    back to your usual ad hominems, always the sign of nothing to refute.

    in any event, i say read it again when people fail to understand what
    is written. there is nothing unclear about what i wrote.
    correct.

    it's the psychology of bidding and is well known in auction circles and
    even ebay suggests it as a strategy. it's nothing new.

    low initial bids gets people bidding early because they think they
    might get something for a really cheap price. items with bids fuels
    more bids and the items often end up in a bidding war and sell for a
    higher price than had the person started with a higher initial price.

    this is such a well established strategy that i'm surprised you haven't
    heard of it.
    there is no need to do another study since there already have been
    numerous such studies.

    once again, you have no idea what you're talking about, although you do
    get credit for at least understanding the strategy.
    actually it does pertain to cameras as well as most consumer
    electronics because they're very popular items that are in high demand
    and will usually get a lot of bidding activity, especially is the price
    is low. who wouldn't want a canon or nikon slr for cheap?

    where this strategy does not apply is for obscure or niche products
    that won't get very many bids no matter what anyone does or generic
    products where there are dozens, if not hundreds of similar items from
    multiple sellers. those generally should not have a very low initial
    bid, and are often priced about what they're worth because they won't
    get very many bids because of that very reason.

    the original listing was for a canon slr, which will absolutely benefit
    from a low starting price.
     
    Guest, May 14, 2014
    #42
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  3. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Pot, kettle, black.
    It's not unclear to someone reading my explanation, but your comment
    was not at all clear.
    When will you cite these studies?
    I don't know what I'm talking about, but I can explain what you
    didn't?
    Most go unsold or sold for cheap.
    Switching horses in mid-stream? Now it's a low starting price by the
    seller, not low initial bids by the buyer.

    A low starting price does nothing to control how much the bids will
    be. It could result in the minimum bid or a high bid in an attempt to
    close out the bidding.
     
    Tony Cooper, May 15, 2014
    #43
  4. RichA

    Guest Guest

    i never resort to insults unless someone insults me first, which you
    normally do.
    what part wasn't clear?

    it was a once sentence summary and quite clear.

    it's also fairly obvious to anyone who has used ebay or other auctions
    more than occasionally. one need not dig into the literature to figure
    it out.
    here's just two:

    <http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2006-07860-007>
    Counter to the "start high, end high" effect of anchors in individual
    judgments and dyadic negotiations, 6 studies using a diverse set of
    methodologies document how and why, in the social setting of
    auctions, lower starting prices result in higher final prices. Three
    processes contribute to this effect. First, lower starting prices
    reduce barriers to entry, which increase traffic and generate higher
    final prices. Second, lower starting prices entice bidders to invest
    time and energy (creating sunk costs) and, consequently, escalate
    their commitments. Third, the traffic generated by lower starting
    prices can lead bidders to infer value in the item, thereby
    explaining previous findings that traffic begets more traffic.

    <http://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/place_your_bids/>
    In a paper published in the Journal of Personality and Social
    Psychology, the researchers show that low rather than high opening
    bids‹for a variety of products from shirts to fancy rugs in online
    auctions‹generate high selling prices, demonstrating a reversal of
    the anchoring effect.
    ....
    To allow the results to be generalized across goods, the researchers
    chose two different products‹a Nikon camera and a Persian rug‹to
    compare the relationship between the initial asking and the final
    selling prices.
    ....
    For both products, the researchers found that a low starting price
    led to a higher final price. They also verified that lower starting
    prices led to more bids and more unique bidders, indicating that
    traffic contributed to escalating the final price.
    ....
    ³Sellers should create a market that is as wide as possible,²
    Galinsky said. ³You start with a low price when you believe that
    there¹s a substantial market for the item such that you lower the
    barriers for people to start bidding.²
    if you knew what you were talking about you would have known that this
    is common and well known bidder behaviour.

    instead, you said i made it up and no such studies exist and below you
    even contradict yourself saying that a low initial price has no effect,
    which is opposite what you said before.

    you don't know what you're talking about.
    i'm not switching anything.

    this has *always* been about a low starting price by the seller.

    a buyer cannot set a starting price. only the seller can. you're *very*
    confused.
    a low starting price does affect the bids, but as with anything, it's
    not a universal rule and i already addressed where this strategy is not
    the best choice.
     
    Guest, May 15, 2014
    #44
  5. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Doesn't count. You are supposed to be providing a cite for your
    statement that: "not only that, but high initial bidding prices
    usually end up with lower final sale prices."

    The cite is about high *starting* prices. The seller sets the
    starting price. The seller does not bid.

    Doesn't count. You are supposed to be providing a cite for your
    statement that: "not only that, but high initial bidding prices
    usually end up with lower final sale prices."

    The cite is about high *starting* prices. The seller sets the
    starting price. The seller does not bid.
    Bidder. Not seller. Bidders bid. Sellers set starting prices. You
    agreed that I had correctly interpreted your statement, which was
    about bidding, and then citing studies about starting prices. Do you
    not understand the difference between a seller and a bidder?
    I said *nothing* about starting prices. The seller sets the starting
    price.
    Make up your mind. You agreed that I was correct about interpreting
    your statement to mean that low *bids* at first result in higher
    selling prices because they don't scare off buyers.

    Now you're weaseling around and making it about the seller's action:
    setting the starting price.
    I am? Read your own posts.
    No, it doesn't affect the bids. What it effects is that the first bid
    must be above the starting price. It may be the only bid.

    I don't blame you for being confused. You have only your own post to
    work with, and you don't seem to know if you are talking about buyers
    bids or sellers starting prices.
     
    Tony Cooper, May 15, 2014
    #45
  6. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    This is pretty much par for the course for you. You make some
    statement here that is poorly expressed, you get challenged on it, and
    then you start back-filling and claiming it was "*always*" about
    something that it was never about according to what you wrote.

    It may have been "always about" something in your mind, but you never
    expressed it that way. You blame others for not understanding what
    you meant but didn't say.

    You wrote: "high initial bidding prices", not "high initial starting
    prices".

    Bidders bid. Sellers set starting prices. Sellers do not bid. The
    *initial bids* are the first bids placed by the buyers.

    You have the option of correcting yourself and saving face. You could
    have written "Sorry, I meant 'high initial starting prices'" and not
    become entangled in another losing argument.
     
    Tony Cooper, May 15, 2014
    #46
  7. RichA

    Guest Guest

    same thing.
    the terms are interchangeable, along with opening bid, minimum bid,
    starting price, with links in the other post.
    no need, since they are all synonymous.

    are you new to auctions? that could explain your lack of understanding.

    in any event, you are as usual, arguing just to argue and stooping to
    your usual idiotic word games.
     
    Guest, May 15, 2014
    #47
  8. RichA

    Guest Guest

    they both absolutely do count and confirm exactly what i've been saying
    all along. you don't like it when i back up what i say, do you?

    you are trolling.
    i was mistaken and gave you far more credit than you deserved.

    what you call a starting price is also called a starting bid by ebay as
    well as just about anyone. it is also called an opening bid, initial
    bid and minimum bid. they are all interchangeable and only an idiot
    would be confused.

    this link should really get your head spinning:
    <http://www.charityauctioneer.com/news/2011/6/29/opening-bids-increments-
    for-silent-benefit-auctions.html>
    If an opening bid is too high, they won't bid.  Once the evening
    progresses, hopefully the excitement of bidding takes over and they
    are less concerned with a discount. But we need them to start the
    bidding ASAP in the evening, so get the ball rolling and don't scare
    them off with an opening bid that's too high.

    <http://fineart.about.com/od/Glossary_O/g/Opening-Bid.htm>
    Definition: The opening bid is an auction term referring to the
    starting bid or the minimum price requested by the seller of the
    artwork.
    Also Known As: Starting bid

    <http://ebay.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestion1/f/faq_reserve.htm>
    Set your starting bid at or above the minimum price at which you'll
    sell. The cleanest and simplest way to ensure that you aren't forced
    to sell your item too cheaply is to set a high starting bid. Every
    item auctioned on eBay is assigned a minimum starting bid by the
    seller. The first bidder must bid at least the starting bid amount in
    order bid on the auction.

    four instances of 'starting bid' in the above paragraph alone!

    and once again confirming that what i wrote was correct:
    Contrary to what some might expect, items with high starting minimums
    or with reserve prices statistically experience a lower number of
    bids and a lower final sale price than items with low starting
    minimums and no reserve.
    yes they do, also known as the starting bid or opening bid.
    wrong. it was always about the seller's choice. that's all it *can* be.

    anything else is your own fabrication so that you can argue.
    my posts are clear. yours are not and nothing more than trolling,
    twisting and word games.
    wrong on that too.

    the first bid is *equal to* the starting price. that's one reason why
    it's also called the starting bid.
    i'm not the least bid confused. i know what i'm talking about and have
    been on ebay for nearly 15 years and have been quite successful in
    buying and selling there, as well as traditional auctions before that.

    as usual, you do not know what you're talking about, so all you do is
    twist and troll.
     
    Guest, May 15, 2014
    #48
  9. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    I was thinking that but affraid to ask.
    A friend of mine brought some cheap computer items on ebay that were badly listed or that would sell better if described better. He sold some graphicscard for over twice the price he brought them for by testing them in Macs and giving all the details specs and other tech info.
    But that was in the early days, ebay's not as good as it was.
     
    Whisky-dave, May 15, 2014
    #49
  10. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

     
    Whisky-dave, May 15, 2014
    #50
  11. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Not at all. A starting price is the minimum amount that must be bid
    by the first person intending to purchase the item. A bid is the
    amount the buyer (or potential buyer) says he/she is willing to pay
    for the item. They are not the same thing, and in a successful
    auction not the same amount.
    Oh, in your world a "bid" is not something placed by a buyer. A
    seller can bid?

    Do you really expect anyone to accept this?

    eBay prohibits sellers bidding on their own item. It's called "shill
    bidding". A "minimum bid" is either the first bid at the starting
    price *or* the amount in excess of the previous bid that is required.
    It is not "the same" as the starting price once the auction has at
    least one bid made.

    Even eBay lists an auction as "0 bids" when there is a starting price
    but no takers.

    You have started a hole with a shovel, but are now using a JCB.
    I have 315 feedback reports, mostly as a seller, and 100% positive
    feedback.
    Just trying to get you, for once, to admit being wrong and to correct
    yourself.
     
    Tony Cooper, May 15, 2014
    #51
  12. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    Who do you think you're fooling? The above has *nothing* to do with
    eBay starting prices. At the auctions described in this article, the
    seller does not set a starting price. It's about *buyers* placing
    bids.

    Yes. Read for meaning. It's there for you. The opening *bid* or
    starting *bid* is...well...a bid. The "starting *price* is the amount
    the seller has determined to be the minimum amount to be bid.
    You aren't reading for meaning. The full statement is "set a high
    starting bid". The author is stating that the first bid should be
    required to be this amount. He is saying what that *bid* must be.
    Again, the author is saying what the seller designates (or assigns) as
    the amount the first bid must be. The buyer must make a bid at, or
    higher than, this amount.
    All of which you have read without understanding what is meant.
    Are you nuts? There are two choices involved: the choice the seller
    makes in setting the minimum amount he will accept, and the choice
    each bidder must make in deciding how much he will pay.

    The strategy of *bidding* has to do with how much to bid. The bidder
    can offer a price just over the last bid in hopes of getting the item
    at a low price, or the bidder can offer a price much higher than the
    last bid in hopes of scaring off other bidders.
    What? The first bid may be any amount. It may be at the starting
    price or it may be over the starting price.
    I have been buying and selling (mostly selling) on eBay since June,
    2000. I have 315 feedbacks. 100% positive. If you have really been
    on eBay for a few years, you know that the number of feedbacks one
    receives can be a fraction of the number of auctions one has
    participated in as a buyer or seller.


    You may have been there a year longer, but - amazingly - have never
    learned what a "bid" is.
     
    Tony Cooper, May 15, 2014
    #52
  13. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    Only to you. But that's OK. You communicate to a different planet.
     
    PeterN, May 15, 2014
    #53
  14. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    In those studies they are talking about initial ASKING price. Your
    statement was "...but high initial *bidding prices* usually end up with
    lower final sale prices." (emphasis supplied.)
    I guess I am picking on words.
     
    PeterN, May 15, 2014
    #54
  15. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    I'm bidding goodbye to his asininity.
     
    PeterN, May 15, 2014
    #55
  16. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    My wife foreclosed on a Florida condominium. (It was not a homestead.)
    The opening bid was one hundred dollars. My wife bid $101. This wen on
    in increments of one dollar for several hours. We let the stupid debtor
    buy in back at $$28k.

    Yes unless the auction rules state otherwise, bids can be in any increment.
     
    PeterN, May 15, 2014
    #56
  17. RichA

    Guest Guest

    it's true it has nothing to do with ebay and is about what the seller
    wants as well as what the buyers do.

    more importantly, it shows is that the terms are used interchangeably.

    you refuse to acknowledge that.
    minimum price requested by the seller is not a bid. it goes by many
    names, including opening bid and starting bid.

    try reading for meaning.
    and that's why it's called a starting bid, as decided by the *seller*.

    here's more proof to show that people use the terms interchangeably,
    not that additional proof is needed. you won't admit you're wrong no
    matter what proof there is.

    <http://www.ebay.com/gds/Take-Advantage-of-Bid-Increments-/1000000000279
    2188/g.html>
    Every auction has a minimum bid, a dollar amount shown just above the
    Place Bid button on the auction page, as shown in . If the auction
    hasn't received any bids, the minimum bid is the same as the starting
    bid. Otherwise, the minimum bid is equal to the current price plus a
    bid increment.

    <http://community.ebay.com/t5/Bidding/What-happens-when-you-list-item-st
    arting-bid-at-0-99/qaq-p/11276389>
    I listed an item starting bid at .99 list Ebay suggested to attract
    buyers.

    if you don't want to sell something for .99 cents , do not start your
    bid at that price , because it can happen that somebody will be the
    only bidder at that price.

    this person even said starting bid in the title
    <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Photo-For-Sale-Starting-Bid-01-Picture-of-a-Cat-
    Bidding-at-01-One-Cent-/121341179747>
    Photo For Sale. Starting Bid .01 Picture of a Cat. Bidding at .01 One
    Cent See original listing
    i know what is meant. you obviously do not. you confuse easily.

    you are insisting that everyone conform to your personal view on word
    usage. guess what, they're not going to do that.

    here in the real world, the terms are used interchangeably. that's just
    how it is.

    all you're doing is arguing just for the sake of arguing.

    i bet you're the life of the party, correcting everyone's english.
    ebay does not work that way.

    no matter what someone bids, ebay will only show a bid that is one
    increment higher than the current bid, so there's no way anyone can be
    scared off by a very high bid because they won't know that there is a
    very high bid.

    only when they bid themselves will they find out the first bidder had a
    proxy bid.
    regardless of what the bidder bids, the first bid is always equal to
    the starting bid (or what you call price).

    higher bids will proxy bid automatically and is almost always a bad
    idea for buyers.
    i've been on ebay since about the same time, possibly a little before
    that. i could go look up the exact date but it doesn't really matter. a
    few months one way or the other over 14 years is nothing.
    i know what bid is.

    you're just trolling.
     
    Guest, May 15, 2014
    #57
  18. RichA

    Guest Guest

    here in the real world, they are used interchangeably.
    the rest of the world already has, when referring to the starting bid.

    why won't you?
    true, but not relevant.
    an ebay auction says 'starting bid' and the amount that the seller
    chose.
    you're the one doing the digging.
    yet you still don't understand the term.
    when the rest of the world uses the terms as i do, leaving you as the
    argumentative nitpicker, then it is not me who needs to admit they're
    wrong.

    once again, what you are calling starting price is also called by many
    other terms, including starting bid, opening bid and minimum bid,
    without anyone being confused, other than you.

    all your'e doing is trolling.
     
    Guest, May 15, 2014
    #58
  19. RichA

    Guest Guest

    yes you are picking on words. it's all you can do.

    the terms are interchangeable, but even if they weren't, it's obvious
    from context what was meant.

    you're trolling.
     
    Guest, May 15, 2014
    #59
  20. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    That's a lie. It's about the opening bid, not the starting price. The
    "seller" (which, in this case, is the charity that has received the
    item as a donation) does not set any price.
    Of course I do. I don't acknowledge what isn't there.
    You are still not reading for meaning. The seller decides what is
    required as a minimum bid, but the buyer decides the amount of the
    bid. The seller is not making the starting bid.
    Jesus X. Christ! Are you that stupid? Are you reading "the minimum
    bid is the same as the starting bid" as "proof"? That just means that
    the minimum bid is the same *amount* as the starting price.
    Now you've gone to an eBay user forum where people who don't know what
    they're doing on eBay write in and get answers from people who are
    equally confused.I can go to a English language user forum and find people who think
    that "except" and "accept" are interchangeable words.
    Oh, there's a solid reliable source. A guy who sells photos of his
    cat with a starting price of 1 cent and requires local pick-up only.
    Thirteen *cents* is the most he's got from a sale. Went right to the
    top, didn't you?
    Nah. I don't party with idiots who don't know the difference between
    what a buyer does and what a seller does. They don't need correcting.
     
    Tony Cooper, May 15, 2014
    #60
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