Merry Christmas

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alan Browne, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    It's not a red herring. No government in the world has funded things to
    find that the money was used in 100% of the cases for the intended purpose.

    As you said "If the funds..." while "if" statements have at least two
    outcomes.

    There is no guarantee that a church or other "faith based" organization
    has an in place non-religious-intent book keeping system. This would
    have to be set up if not already in place by any organization that uses
    this funding.

    Government agencies can't buy toilet paper efficiently...

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2006
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  2. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    So did Ronald Reagan. A lot.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2006
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  3. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    For their period it was as standard to profess belief in God as it was
    to hide any doubts about such a belief.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2006
  4. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    It is the official state church of england.
    The nuance here is that "the faith" is the _Roman_ Catholic Church.
    There have been efforts to change "Defender of the faith" to "Defender
    of faith" but this requires a change to a law that dates back some
    centuries. It does not appear to be worht the effort to do so, so the
    original wording remains.

    Note: COE is _Catholic_. It is NOT _Roman_ Catholic.
    And, ironically, some of them were COE (Episcopal) and remained so
    afterwards.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2006
  5. Alan Browne

    Mark² Guest

    Reminds me of "Miracle on 34th Street" where Macy and Gimble start arguing
    over who gets to pay for the x-ray machine Kris Kringle want to buy for his
    friend... :)
     
    Mark², Dec 31, 2006
  6. There are a LOT of atheists like that. I've dealt personally with many of
    Yes....Some people get very annoyed at being discriminated against just for
    exhibiting common sense.....After all, It was the middle 50's when congress
    changed the pledge of allegiance to read, "under God" instead of,
    "indivisible". Where did that come from? - If that wasn't simply a slap in
    the face to the atheists, then what, exactly was it? One might argue that if
    the religious zealots started it, then they have no one but themselves to
    blame when we fight back, do they? So now many of us are petitioning the
    government to remove all references to god from all of our public
    places....Well, what do you guys expect? In my case, it isn't worth the
    trouble.....For the first 10 years of my life, I thought it meant you
    couldn't see our country.....:^) So why, exactly would I care? but
    obviously, there are some who do. And, when I am asked to go to the polls
    and vote....Which side do you think I am going to vote for?
     
    William Graham, Dec 31, 2006
  7. That's for sure.....It will be made of stainless steel, and cost $257.89 per
    roll.........
     
    William Graham, Dec 31, 2006
  8. Alan Browne

    Mark² Guest

    I'm wondering if it might have been a "slap" to Communist USSR... ?
    I understand both sides, actually, William. You're not a kook. There are
    kooks on both the atheist side and the religious side. I don't like your
    pronouncement that all believers are somehow fools, or illogical, etc. I
    certainly understand how faith seems to fly in the face of logic. Believe
    me...I DO understand that at a personal level. I just think there's more
    going on than can be measured/quantified etc. I tend to view these things
    through a logical eye too, and it's a problem for me that I struggle with.
    I don't know that I'll ever feel I've "figured it out." But please don't
    assume that because of an area of faith in one's life, that the faithful are
    universally irrational or illogical. There are some blind, "faithful"
    idiots. I've run into them, and I'd like to smack them in the head just as
    much as you would. But there are others who are not only logical, but
    exceedingly wise and down-to-Earth in their faith. I hope you'll meet them
    someday, because you may have to revise a few of your sweeping
    generalizations.
     
    Mark², Dec 31, 2006
  9. Alan Browne

    Mark² Guest

    I think that was mostly his wife...
     
    Mark², Dec 31, 2006
  10. For the first 10 years or so of my life, I had to file into an auditorium at
    school every morning, and mumble whatever my classmates were mumbling......I
    don't appreciate my children having to file into one and mumble whatever
    their classmates have to mumble....The least I can do is to break that
    cycle.How far will I go? - Well, I'm not going to strap a bunch of dynamite
    to my chest and blow myself up over it, but I sure as hell am going to cast
    my vote over it whenever I get the chance. Today, there are a bunch of
    religious nuts that are willing to blow themselves up over things like
    this....Perhaps you guys should take a cue from that and back off a
    little......
     
    William Graham, Dec 31, 2006
  11. Yes....that's the party line, all right....Thing is, Reagan made a hell of a
    lot of really good decisions, so why would I care where they came from?
     
    William Graham, Dec 31, 2006
  12. Yeah.....In those days, you could be burned at the stake for failing to
    profess your belief(e) in God. Today, you just lose the election.........
     
    William Graham, Dec 31, 2006
  13. Alan Browne

    Mark² Guest

    For as practical a guy as you otherwise seem, William, I'm frankly surprised
    you'd burn so many calories...and so many votes...over these "mumblings."
     
    Mark², Jan 1, 2007
  14. Alan Browne

    Jim Guest

    I have just reviewed, looked over the 200 plus posts in this topic, and
    I am now convinced that I am wasting my time in subscribing to it. No
    one seems know what the group is about, it's purpose, and very little,
    if anything, about medium format photography. All I see is people
    running their mouth via the internet. Who cares and whose business is
    it, if you believe, or do not believe in a god. All that is your own
    business, and people who have to speak, often going on and on, are just
    those who's beliefs need support and are seeking it by going public.
    Unless pointedly asked, a true believer (in whatever) would not need to
    state such information in public. At a meeting of people of the same
    belief, he could and would, freely state his belief for all to hear!

    Jim Simmons
     
    Jim, Jan 1, 2007
  15. Alan Browne

    Mark² Guest

    It's very simple, Jim. Get yourself a decent, free newsreader, and simply
    skip this particular thread. This is merely a naturaly side-track
    conversation between photographers who frequent these groups...which started
    with "Merry Christmas." This is "public," yes, but I am very familiar with
    William Graham, Alan Browne, Bill Funk, and the others talking here.
    They've been participating photographers here for years. We, in a sense,
    "know" each other, and are some level above public strangers. And by the
    way...I think your theory is bunk--about looking for validation here. I can
    tell you that I rarely get that here if anything religious comes up. -But
    why do YOU care one way or the other. Clearly you do or you wouldn't read
    200 posts...only to gripe and moan...followed by YOUR OWN two cents on
    religion! :) Even YOU felt compelled to enter in with your own take.
    Isn't it funny how we're ALL hypocrites at one time or another?

    Again... Get a news-reader, and all will be right with your NG world...
     
    Mark², Jan 1, 2007
  16. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Do your Google searches.
     
    Alan Browne, Jan 1, 2007
  17. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Jim!

    BTW: you don't "have" to read every thread and post, and you can filter
    them out with the appropriate newsreader settings.

    But, the most effective way to not read things you don't want to "waste
    your time with" is to post fresh new topics for discussion and distract
    us from our sidebar discussions.

    Cheers,
    Alan
     
    Alan Browne, Jan 1, 2007
  18. Yes....I see these things in a different perspective. If you can generate a
    lot of money in a short period of time by doing whatever it is you are good
    at, (Bill Gates, for example) then there is nothing wrong with giving some
    of that money to a charitable cause, rather than your time, (which is much
    more valuable to you and everyone else if you do whatever it is that you are
    good at.) The idea that it doesn't mean anything if you don't "suffer" in
    some way is ludicrous to me. I am sure the recipients of the charity neither
    know nor care how the money was made, and I doubt whether God would care,
    either. He would only care if making money was some kind of "sin", and as a
    republican, I don't believe it is a sin to make money. Only liberal
    democrats believe that everyone who is rich got that way by climbing up the
    backs of the poor and the downtrodden. We enlightened Republicans know that
    there are lots of people who made their money the old fashioned way, by
    working hard for it, and saving and investing it, and there is no sin in
    giving some of it to charity.........
     
    William Graham, Jan 1, 2007
  19. But that's my point....I don't burn many calories over it.....In general, I
    just leave it alone....After all, I spent the first 15 years of my life just
    putting up with it......
    It's just that I can't help identifying with us free thinkers who don't
    like being forced (and, when you are only 6 or 7 years old, you are being
    forced) to take part in other people's religious rituals. I just think the
    religious nuts in this world should leave it alone....Don't mess with the
    pledge of allegiance, or anything else that was set up by our forefathers.
    After all, from my perspective, it's bad enough as it is. They were, for
    the most part, Christians, and they let a large amount of that Christianity
    creep into their writings and early American documents of state......All I'm
    saying now is: Don't exacerbate the problem by increasing the presence of
    that religious bias......Be satisfied with what you've got, which is
    considerable, by the way......
     
    William Graham, Jan 1, 2007
  20. I have just reviewed, looked over the 200 plus posts in this topic, and
    I am now convinced that I am wasting my time in subscribing to it. No
    one seems know what the group is about, it's purpose, and very little,
    if anything, about medium format photography. All I see is people
    running their mouth via the internet. Who cares and whose business is
    it, if you believe, or do not believe in a god. All that is your own
    business, and people who have to speak, often going on and on, are just
    those who's beliefs need support and are seeking it by going public.
    Unless pointedly asked, a true believer (in whatever) would not need to
    state such information in public. At a meeting of people of the same
    belief, he could and would, freely state his belief for all to hear!

    Jim Simmons

    But there are people who refuse to respect the line drawn in the
    sand....They have to step over that line whenever they think they can get
    away with it. The problem is, they believe that their God smiles at those
    who "convert" the heathenistic masses into believing in him, and they think
    they can do that by being obnoxious. This is similar to believing that you
    can get into heaven by strapping a bunch of dynamite to yourself, and
    blowing yourself up, as long as you take a few infidels (heathins) with you,
    except it isn't quite as obnoxious as that.....But the general principal is
    the same.....If you don't believe, then, By God, I'm going to make you
    believe, even if I have to kill you (or otherwise infringe on your space) to
    do it! I claim that that line in the sand should be ten feet wide, and we
    should all take care to remain on our side of it at all times. Then we
    wouldn't be at each other's throats all the time..........
     
    William Graham, Jan 1, 2007
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