mandrake 9.2 upgrade disappointing (& dangerous)

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by bruce, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. bruce

    steve Guest

    Jerry allegedly said:

    > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:20:02 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:18:10 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >
    >>> >"Kurt Häusler" <> wrote in message
    >>> >news:bpgv86$uf2$06$-online.com...
    >>> >> Enkidu wrote:
    >>> >>
    >>> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian

    >>supporter.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?

    >>They
    >>> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    >>> >>
    >>> >
    >>> >Its a historical reference
    >>> >
    >>> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    >>> >
    >>> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    >>>

    >>1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    >>Thats when the FUD started.
    >>"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    >>

    >
    > There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    > superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    > Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >
    > Jerry


    Jerry Stoebe?

    --
    Best Regards,
    Steve Withers
    defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it on
    your PC with some other operating system.
     
    steve, Nov 20, 2003
    #21
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  2. bruce

    harry Guest

    "Jerry" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:20:02 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:18:10 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >
    > >> >"Kurt Häusler" <> wrote in message
    > >> >news:bpgv86$uf2$06$-online.com...
    > >> >> Enkidu wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian

    > >supporter.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?

    > >They
    > >> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> >Its a historical reference
    > >> >
    > >> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    > >> >
    > >> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    > >>

    > >1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    > >Thats when the FUD started.
    > >"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    > >

    >
    > There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    > superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    > Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >
    > Jerry


    See, its history, and now we have the input from a historian
     
    harry, Nov 20, 2003
    #22
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  3. bruce

    harry Guest

    "Jerry" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:20:02 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:18:10 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >
    > >> >"Kurt Häusler" <> wrote in message
    > >> >news:bpgv86$uf2$06$-online.com...
    > >> >> Enkidu wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian

    > >supporter.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?

    > >They
    > >> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >> >Its a historical reference
    > >> >
    > >> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    > >> >
    > >> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    > >>

    > >1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    > >Thats when the FUD started.
    > >"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    > >

    >
    > There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    > superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    > Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >
    > Jerry


    Yeah that sounds better, Databank had 370/165 in Wellington and 360/40 in
    the regional centres IIRC around 1973.
     
    harry, Nov 20, 2003
    #23
  4. bruce

    Jerry Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:39:12 +1300, steve <> wrote:

    >Jerry allegedly said:
    >
    >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:20:02 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>"Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:18:10 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> >
    >>>> >"Kurt Häusler" <> wrote in message
    >>>> >news:bpgv86$uf2$06$-online.com...
    >>>> >> Enkidu wrote:
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian
    >>>supporter.
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?
    >>>They
    >>>> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    >>>> >>
    >>>> >
    >>>> >Its a historical reference
    >>>> >
    >>>> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    >>>> >
    >>>> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    >>>>
    >>>1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    >>>Thats when the FUD started.
    >>>"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    >>>

    >>
    >> There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    >> superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    >> Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >>
    >> Jerry

    >
    >Jerry Stoebe?


    That's me
     
    Jerry, Nov 20, 2003
    #24
  5. bruce

    Jerry Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:18:07 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Jerry" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:20:02 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >"Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    >> >news:...
    >> >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:18:10 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> >"Kurt Häusler" <> wrote in message
    >> >> >news:bpgv86$uf2$06$-online.com...
    >> >> >> Enkidu wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian
    >> >supporter.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?
    >> >They
    >> >> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Its a historical reference
    >> >> >
    >> >> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    >> >> >
    >> >> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    >> >>
    >> >1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    >> >Thats when the FUD started.
    >> >"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    >> >

    >>
    >> There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    >> superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    >> Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >>
    >> Jerry

    >
    >See, its history, and now we have the input from a historian
    >

    Hey, I was a "mainframe trained engineer" on this old iron. It was
    fun to fix, lost of switches and flashing lights. You had to
    troubleshoot right down to the failing gate. The 165 used core
    memory, one of the big advanced of the 168 was that it used monolithic
    main memory.

    Jerry
     
    Jerry, Nov 20, 2003
    #25
  6. bruce

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:18:07 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Jerry" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:20:02 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >"Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    >> >news:...
    >> >> On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:18:10 +1300, "harry" <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> >"Kurt Häusler" <> wrote in message
    >> >> >news:bpgv86$uf2$06$-online.com...
    >> >> >> Enkidu wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian
    >> >supporter.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?
    >> >They
    >> >> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> >Its a historical reference
    >> >> >
    >> >> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    >> >> >
    >> >> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    >> >>
    >> >1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    >> >Thats when the FUD started.
    >> >"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    >> >

    >>
    >> There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    >> superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    >> Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >>
    >> Jerry

    >
    >See, its history, and now we have the input from a historian
    >

    Bugger that! Anything that happened since I started working *cannot*
    be history! <grin>

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 20, 2003
    #26
  7. bruce

    steve Guest

    Jerry allegedly said:

    >>Jerry Stoebe?

    >
    > That's me


    Great! Nice to know you're still out there.

    --
    Best Regards,
    Steve Withers
    defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it on
    your PC with some other operating system.
     
    steve, Nov 21, 2003
    #27
  8. bruce

    Jerry Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 14:36:40 +1300, steve <> wrote:

    >Jerry allegedly said:
    >
    >>>Jerry Stoebe?

    >>
    >> That's me

    >
    >Great! Nice to know you're still out there.


    Always been out here, just a little slower and greyer. Good to see
    you are still here.
     
    Jerry, Nov 21, 2003
    #28
  9. bruce

    steve Guest

    Enkidu allegedly said:

    >>> However that
    >>> doesn't change the fact that 99.99..% of people who install Debian
    >>> have no trouble.

    >>
    >>Now that's bullshit if bullshit has been seen anywhere. Let's define
    >>install:
    >>
    >>OS on board, all devices functional, GUI up and running. Minimum of
    >>intervetion required by the user.
    >>
    >>Debian? No.

    >
    > [last word - this is going nowhere....Just like old times, eh,
    > Steve??]


    Only because you pretend to deny my experience.

    I don't deny yours.

    Maybe you have had endless perfect installs. Data point.

    I have never had a perfect install with Debian. Data point.

    Let the reader be aware of both sets of experience. Both are valid - unless
    you have been fibbing....because I certainly have not.

    --
    Best Regards,
    Steve Withers
    defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it on
    your PC with some other operating system.
     
    steve, Nov 21, 2003
    #29
  10. bruce

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:39:26 +1300, steve <> wrote:

    >Enkidu allegedly said:
    >
    >>>> However that
    >>>> doesn't change the fact that 99.99..% of people who install Debian
    >>>> have no trouble.
    >>>
    >>>Now that's bullshit if bullshit has been seen anywhere. Let's define
    >>>install:
    >>>
    >>>OS on board, all devices functional, GUI up and running. Minimum of
    >>>intervetion required by the user.
    >>>
    >>>Debian? No.

    >>
    >> [last word - this is going nowhere....Just like old times, eh,
    >> Steve??]

    >
    >Only because you pretend to deny my experience.
    >
    >I don't deny yours.
    >
    >Maybe you have had endless perfect installs. Data point.
    >
    >I have never had a perfect install with Debian. Data point.
    >
    >Let the reader be aware of both sets of experience. Both are valid - unless
    >you have been fibbing....because I certainly have not.


    [really the last word]

    You said:
    'Installing debian on a laptop could be "fun". Woody (latest version
    of debian 'stable') has a fairly lousy install by current standards.
    He'd be left to set up X and whatever else debian's install barfed
    on.'

    So far as denying your experience is concerned, I find it hard to
    credit that you can ibnstall Gentoo and not be able to install the
    relatively easy Debian. I can only assume that you are taking
    liberties with the installer. The installer doesn't "barf" on
    packages. X just works. That's in, ooh, about half a dozen seperate
    installs that I've done.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 21, 2003
    #30
  11. bruce

    harry Guest

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:iyhvb.8760$...
    > Enkidu allegedly said:
    >
    > >>> However that
    > >>> doesn't change the fact that 99.99..% of people who install Debian
    > >>> have no trouble.
    > >>
    > >>Now that's bullshit if bullshit has been seen anywhere. Let's define
    > >>install:
    > >>
    > >>OS on board, all devices functional, GUI up and running. Minimum of
    > >>intervetion required by the user.
    > >>
    > >>Debian? No.

    > >
    > > [last word - this is going nowhere....Just like old times, eh,
    > > Steve??]

    >
    > Only because you pretend to deny my experience.
    >
    > I don't deny yours.
    >
    > Maybe you have had endless perfect installs. Data point.
    >
    > I have never had a perfect install with Debian. Data point.
    >
    > Let the reader be aware of both sets of experience. Both are valid -

    unless
    > you have been fibbing....because I certainly have not.
    >


    The debian boot floppies installer is a fairly manual process because debian
    is designed to be a universal operating system on several different CPU
    architectures. If you use this installer on the Woody Disk1 its best using
    the bf24 cheatcode with the current disks, and choosing a common network
    interface such as a Realtek 8139 and a serial port modem. Once installed you
    can install new kernel images with apt-get, and use the modconf tool to
    select kernel module drivers for other hardware. Its not ultra simple, but
    the tools are simple and robust.
    There are Debian variants which have x86 specific installers like Knoppix,
    Xandros, Lindows, and formerly Progeny and Stormix. Progeny recently were
    working on extending anaconda to be a debian installer. There is also a new
    installer project for Sarge, the current testing distribution which will
    migrate to stable fairly soon, given the recent transition to testing to
    testing of Gnome 2.2 and KDE 3.1
    The network installer is available to test at
    http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
    There seems to be a problem with debian.org at the moment, maybe my ISPs DNS
    ?
     
    harry, Nov 21, 2003
    #31
  12. bruce

    Jerry Guest

    On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:15:31 +1300, Enkidu <>
    wrote:


    >>> >> >> > Steve, this is FUD worthy only of IBM and Microsoft.
    >>> >> >>
    >>> >> >> Hi. I agree totally with your post, I am also a staunch debian
    >>> >supporter.
    >>> >> >>
    >>> >> >> But what FUD have IBM been spreading? I know MS are guilty but IBM?
    >>> >They
    >>> >> >> are pretty strong linux backers.
    >>> >> >>
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> >Its a historical reference
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> >http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/F/FUD.html
    >>> >> >
    >>> >> Bloody heck! Historical? History starts so recently these days!
    >>> >>
    >>> >1975 The first Amdahl replacement for the IBM 360/165 :)
    >>> >Thats when the FUD started.
    >>> >"Nobody ever got fired for buyng IBM......"
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>> There never was an IBM 360/165. There was a 370/165, but that was
    >>> superceded in 1973 with the announcement of the system 370/168.
    >>> Amdahl's first machine was a potential replacement for the 168
    >>>
    >>> Jerry

    >>
    >>See, its history, and now we have the input from a historian
    >>

    >Bugger that! Anything that happened since I started working *cannot*
    >be history! <grin>
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Cliff


    I agree, historical is pre WW2, and I think I've worked on some stuff
    made before then. :)

    Jerry
     
    Jerry, Nov 21, 2003
    #32
  13. bruce

    steve Guest

    Enkidu allegedly said:

    > On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:39:26 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    >
    >>Enkidu allegedly said:
    >>
    >>>>> However that
    >>>>> doesn't change the fact that 99.99..% of people who install Debian
    >>>>> have no trouble.
    >>>>
    >>>>Now that's bullshit if bullshit has been seen anywhere. Let's define
    >>>>install:
    >>>>
    >>>>OS on board, all devices functional, GUI up and running. Minimum of
    >>>>intervetion required by the user.
    >>>>
    >>>>Debian? No.
    >>>
    >>> [last word - this is going nowhere....Just like old times, eh,
    >>> Steve??]

    >>
    >>Only because you pretend to deny my experience.
    >>
    >>I don't deny yours.
    >>
    >>Maybe you have had endless perfect installs. Data point.
    >>
    >>I have never had a perfect install with Debian. Data point.
    >>
    >>Let the reader be aware of both sets of experience. Both are valid -
    >>unless you have been fibbing....because I certainly have not.

    >
    > [really the last word]
    >
    > You said:
    > 'Installing debian on a laptop could be "fun". Woody (latest version
    > of debian 'stable') has a fairly lousy install by current standards.


    Compared to RedHat, Fedora, Mandrake, SuSE 9.0, Xandros.......yeah.

    > He'd be left to set up X and whatever else debian's install barfed
    > on.'
    >
    > So far as denying your experience is concerned, I find it hard to
    > credit that you can ibnstall Gentoo and not be able to install the
    > relatively easy Debian.


    I thought that odd, too. But rather than acknowledge it and try to
    understand it, you prefer to deny it.

    I wouldn't offer Gentoo to a newbie either....

    > I can only assume that you are taking
    > liberties with the installer. The installer doesn't "barf" on
    > packages.


    Yes it does. If reported before that if i try to do a Debian install to a
    hard drive that was not parititioned using Debian, I get package errors and
    the install fails completely. This happens with both Woody and
    Xandros....so it must be something common to both.

    > X just works.


    Unless you have a GF4 MX420.....in which case it doesn't. If you're using an
    nForce2 mobo, you don't get any sound or network either.

    Not at my house, anyway.

    --
    Best Regards,
    Steve Withers
    defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it on
    your PC with some other operating system.
     
    steve, Nov 21, 2003
    #33
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