Long term data storage ???

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by jeff, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. jeff

    jeff Guest

    I'd like to get some info about long term data storage.

    I've read that a hard drive in a closet can start to lose its data
    after a year or so. I don't really trust DVDs and CDs for long term,
    are tapes better?

    Im trying to find a way to store digital video clips, home movies and
    stuff.
     
    jeff, Mar 26, 2006
    #1
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  2. Want to know what? Until now, old analog film material has proved the best
    longevity. Even if there is some information loss, there are means to
    recover important stuff.
    Videotape is no long-term solution, because the players you have today will
    not be available/working anymore 15 years later. Formats will have changed,
    and probably you will need a special code/chip/permission from the MPAA to
    be able to play any non-DRM'd material on then-available players, even if
    you converted your movies to the new-to-come-yet formats.
    I don't know the implications for public libraries and archives.
    Now, the only way you can keep your movies is "re-corking" them every other
    year, like we "should" have done with floppy disks, and convert to new
    formats when they are mainstream and support for the old format/player
    deceases.
     
    Walter Mautner, Mar 26, 2006
    #2
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  3. jeff

    old man Guest

    Two different storage media, at two different locations
     
    old man, Mar 26, 2006
    #3
  4. jeff

    RogerD Guest

    You "read that a hard drive in a closet can start to lose it's data"?
    Well maybe if you also have powerful electro-magnets in the closet too?
    And You don't trust DVD nor CD as a long-term reliable?
    Have you tried other groups? alt.usenet.paranoia?
     
    RogerD, Mar 26, 2006
    #4
  5. jeff

    ptw Guest


    MO (magneto-optical) are quite good (and expensive) long term data
    storage medium. I've heard you can bake a MO disk (and cool it), and it
    will still work.

    I have a few 7-year old floppy disk and CD-R that still work.

    Usually, storage media become obsolete first before they run out of life
    span.

    Putting hard drive in airtight bag in a safe increases data retention
    time by a huge factor.
     
    ptw, Mar 26, 2006
    #5
  6. ptw wrote:

    .....
    You have to find a player that still works/is available after long-term
    storage.
    You are lucky then.
    Did the floppy retain the same data initially magnetized on it 7 years ago,
    or did you simply reuse it?
    Yeah. Obsolete or DRM'd maybe. You will need a governmental permit (or it
    will only be possible at tightly monitored copy-shops) to transfer non-DRMd
    material to new media if things tend to continue the way they are going
    now.
    As long as the spindle didn't get rusty or the oil solid, from laying around
    too long.
     
    Walter Mautner, Mar 26, 2006
    #6
  7. jeff

    ptw Guest

    Same data as written 7-years ago. Though I recopied them to DVD-Rs
    because new computers don't always come with floppy drives.
     
    ptw, Mar 26, 2006
    #7
  8. jeff

    Whiskers Guest

    Magnetic media do fade, gradually. The oldest 'signal' on a HD is likely
    to be the 'formatting' into sectors and cylinders, rather than the data.
    Optical media also have a finite 'life'. Copy, copy, copy ...

    Barcodes engraved into platinum might get close to being 'permanent', as
    long as a jeweller or engineer doesn't want it for something else.

    Baked clay seems to be reasonably durable - with dry storage, 5,000 years
    and counting, but breakages are a problem and so is remembering how to
    decipher the coding used. The material is of limited commercial value,
    which helps with durability in the long term.

    Carved stone is too tempting; it tends to be re-cycled into building
    materials, then ballast, then gravel, then sand - all valuable to someone
    who isn't interested in the data. Or it gets left out in all weathers and
    just decays naturally.

    These problems are very real for those trying to work out how to leave
    instructions for handling nuclear waste, in a form that will survive as
    long as the danger and be readily understood by people whose culture,
    languages, and technology, we can only guess at. Oral tradition is the
    only method we have at present that comes anywhere near the durability
    required; writing it down can help, but it still needs to be *remembered*
    as well. (We have the specifications and user manual for the Ark of the
    Covenant, but only imperfectly recorded and not really understandable -
    even if we could find the Ark with any certainty; and that's only about
    3,400 years old. Tricky stuff, data).
     
    Whiskers, Mar 26, 2006
    #8
  9. jeff

    Toolman Tim Guest

    In Whiskers spewed forth:
    LOL! I believe you covered pretty much all of the basics there <g>
     
    Toolman Tim, Mar 26, 2006
    #9
  10. jeff

    Trax Guest

    |>
    |>Magnetic media do fade, gradually. The oldest 'signal' on a HD is likely
    |>to be the 'formatting' into sectors and cylinders, rather than the data.
    |>Optical media also have a finite 'life'. Copy, copy, copy ...
    |>
    |>Barcodes engraved into platinum might get close to being 'permanent', as
    |>long as a jeweller or engineer doesn't want it for something else.
    |>
    |>Baked clay seems to be reasonably durable - with dry storage, 5,000 years
    |>and counting, but breakages are a problem and so is remembering how to
    |>decipher the coding used. The material is of limited commercial value,
    |>which helps with durability in the long term.
    |>
    |>Carved stone is too tempting; it tends to be re-cycled into building
    |>materials, then ballast, then gravel, then sand - all valuable to someone
    |>who isn't interested in the data. Or it gets left out in all weathers and
    |>just decays naturally.


    |>These problems are very real for those trying to work out how to leave
    |>instructions for handling nuclear waste, in a form that will survive as
    |>long as the danger and be readily understood by people whose culture,
    |>languages, and technology, we can only guess at. Oral tradition is the
    |>only method we have at present that comes anywhere near the durability
    |>required;

    Nail'd that one; I live near a nuclear reservation and buried waste is
    a concern.

    One remedy was to create a religion, "oohhmmm, do not dig for 10,000
    years" with the area surrounded with ritual stones and metals carved
    as set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices pertaining to keeping them
    out of the dirt...

    |>writing it down can help, but it still needs to be *remembered*
    |>as well. (We have the specifications and user manual for the Ark of the
    |>Covenant, but only imperfectly recorded and not really understandable -
    |>even if we could find the Ark with any certainty; and that's only about
    |>3,400 years old. Tricky stuff, data).

    Nice read! thanks for that one.
     
    Trax, Mar 26, 2006
    #10
  11. jeff

    Peaches Guest

    Hi
    you could store data online....................

    You could use hotmail, but for this example we will use Gmail
    where each account can store a staggering 2.7gb,
    so two accounts will hold more than a DVD.
    To get a Gmail account it is Invite only, so visit this site to
    get your invite: http://gmail.afraid.org/
    Or type "Gmail Invites" into google.

    Once you have your invite(s). then here is where you logon:
    http://tinyurl.com/lq863

    To transfer data to the account(s) you require this free tool:
    http://www.roamdrive.com/default.html

    Click the Download Roamdrive button, then the beta version
    (yep, it is still in beta stage)

    When you first load up roamdrive, you enter the details of
    the destination Gmail (or hotmail) account and password.
    Once connected, a "Your Files" pane will display.
    It is just like drag and drop via Windows explorer, though
    you are at the speed of your internet connection.
    the "Your Files" pane functions just like any other window
    allowing you to add/delete/rename etc.
    It also displays a graph of how much space in the account
    remains available.
    Fondest regards
     
    Peaches, Mar 26, 2006
    #11
  12. jeff

    Whiskers Guest

    One wonders if that is what was meant by the Sphynx, or the Great Pyramid,
    or Stonehenge; then along come us and start digging anyway. Humans are so
    daft, really.
    Heh ;))
     
    Whiskers, Mar 26, 2006
    #12
  13. jeff

    Plato Guest

    Write once cds.
     
    Plato, Mar 26, 2006
    #13
  14. jeff

    jeff Guest


    somethign about the drive not spinning to retain the magnetics
     
    jeff, Mar 28, 2006
    #14
  15. jeff

    jeff Guest


    is this what you do with your life? make idiotic replies to question
    on newsgroups.... jesus thats sad
     
    jeff, Mar 28, 2006
    #15
  16. jeff

    jeff Guest


    you can't be serious.

    here 25 years after beta I can still go to the flea market or thrift
    store (or ebay) and buy a working Betamax to play tapes on.

    I don't see us losing older technology in the future, just as it is
    today. Of course newer tech will come out, as well as newer
    protection. BUT, I am NOT worried I won't be able to play my stuff
    later on. I've got 5-6 dvd burners sitting around, im sure one of
    those will still be workng 20 years from now....

    but you can't run a 286 or an Atari 2600 or a Commodore 64 now a days
    right....? im not worrying
     
    jeff, Mar 28, 2006
    #16
  17. jeff

    jeff Guest



    i have a coule terrabytes of data, i don't see myself chunking that
    into 10 meg sections to upload to google....
     
    jeff, Mar 28, 2006
    #17
  18. jeff

    Gordon Guest

    And /you're/ serious?
     
    Gordon, Mar 28, 2006
    #18
  19. jeff

    Trax Guest

    wrote:

    |>On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 15:39:21 +0100, Whiskers
    |>

    |>>Magnetic media do fade, gradually. The oldest 'signal' on a HD is likely
    |>>to be the 'formatting' into sectors and cylinders, rather than the data.
    |>>Optical media also have a finite 'life'. Copy, copy, copy ...
    |>>
    |>>Barcodes engraved into platinum might get close to being 'permanent', as
    |>>long as a jeweller or engineer doesn't want it for something else.
    |>>
    |>>Baked clay seems to be reasonably durable - with dry storage, 5,000 years
    |>>and counting, but breakages are a problem and so is remembering how to
    |>>decipher the coding used. The material is of limited commercial value,
    |>>which helps with durability in the long term.
    |>>
    |>>Carved stone is too tempting; it tends to be re-cycled into building
    |>>materials, then ballast, then gravel, then sand - all valuable to someone
    |>>who isn't interested in the data. Or it gets left out in all weathers and
    |>>just decays naturally.
    |>>
    |>>These problems are very real for those trying to work out how to leave
    |>>instructions for handling nuclear waste, in a form that will survive as
    |>>long as the danger and be readily understood by people whose culture,
    |>>languages, and technology, we can only guess at. Oral tradition is the
    |>>only method we have at present that comes anywhere near the durability
    |>>required; writing it down can help, but it still needs to be *remembered*
    |>>as well. (We have the specifications and user manual for the Ark of the
    |>>Covenant, but only imperfectly recorded and not really understandable -
    |>>even if we could find the Ark with any certainty; and that's only about
    |>>3,400 years old. Tricky stuff, data).


    |>is this what you do with your life? make idiotic replies to question
    |>on newsgroups.... jesus thats sad

    Read it again, he answer'd the question; and very well.
     
    Trax, Mar 28, 2006
    #19
  20. jeff

    Whiskers Guest

    snip
    I do spontaneous humour, you do snide derogation. It takes all sorts :))
     
    Whiskers, Mar 28, 2006
    #20
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