Linux Just Sucks.. No Wonder So Few Are Using It.

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by bones4jones, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. bones4jones

    Juarez Guest

    Unlike Vista, Linux requires you to engage your brain. All of your above
    issues on Ubuntu are fixable. If you can't take the initiative to learn
    how to fix the issues then Linux is not for you.
     
    Juarez, Oct 8, 2007
    #61
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  2. bones4jones

    Gordon Guest

    Market "political"? What sort of a STUPID statement is that?
    A Market is FINANCIAL you dumbass, and MS has been proven to have put
    financial pressure in the past on OEMs to NOT offer any other OS except
    Windows (up until a couple of years go). Unfortunately they have been doing
    that for so many years without any sort of check on them, that yes, most of
    the world equates computers with windows.
    People don't ask for Linux BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.......and
    they've never been TOLD about it....even now, if you go into somewhere like
    PC world and ask for a machine with Linux installed, most of the "salesmen"
    will just go "eh"?
     
    Gordon, Oct 8, 2007
    #62
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  3. bones4jones

    Desk Rabbit Guest

    Crayons I guess
     
    Desk Rabbit, Oct 8, 2007
    #63
  4. bones4jones

    chrisv Guest

    You want ALL of your Windows software to run under Linux? Do you
    think that's reasonable?
    Ever consider that your nephew is without a clue? In reality, none of
    those things are real and significant issues.
    You will wait a long time, if you expect to be able to switch without
    learning some new ways of doing things.
     
    chrisv, Oct 8, 2007
    #64
  5. bones4jones

    chrisv Guest

    Do you mean the list of lies, copied almost verbatim from a previous
    troll, are fixable? Or do you mean being a bald-faced liar is a
    fixable mental condition?
     
    chrisv, Oct 8, 2007
    #65
  6. bones4jones

    caver1 Guest


    He probably complains about how bad the roads are then complains when
    they fix them.
    caver1
     
    caver1, Oct 8, 2007
    #66
  7. bones4jones

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    ....
    Gee, hadn't really thought about it. Don't know if that is
    reasonable or not. Wait! I did think about it! And, I've been
    reading about it for years! As best I can tell, the people who
    are high advocates of Linux seem to fall into two categories:

    1) those who have forsaken ALL Windows apps and ALL Windows
    drivers and ALL Windows utilities and ALL Windows anything, used
    the equivalent Open Source stuff (which I do not at all
    understand), and they believe that Linux works just fine.

    2) those who want for good, bad, or indifferent reasons NOT to
    have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and use the apps,
    utilities, and hardware they have when they move from the Dark
    Side and join the Force. these people appear to believe that
    Linux does not work at all.

    Now, I don't know if there are any middle of the road positions
    between those 2 extremes, but I am not about to try - YET. When -
    IF? - Linux CAN run my apps and CAN support my HW, I MAY create a
    second boot sector and give it a whirl.

    Honestly, Chris, the main reason I say very little when Linux
    comes up in a number of NGs I visit is precisely because I cannot
    detect a clear consensus on its usability. As best I can
    analogize, it is like watching the Democrats and Republicans
    argue. It is often impossible to even tell they're talking about
    the same thing, but it is crystal clear that they BOTH cannot be
    right.

    So, back to your query? No, again, I do not know what is or what
    is not "reasonable". I don't even have a good definition of
    "reasonable" in this context. The jury is still out on Vista, but
    then, it is a rather new product and there's bound to be some
    bumps and grinds for the early adopters. But, in looking in on
    thee Vista NGs, it appears to be at least a feasible O/S, abeit
    not one I want to try. Next, I can look in on the XP NGs, where
    people talk about a very mature product and there are STILL bumps
    and grinds. That causes me heartburn trying to rationalize all of
    this. To wit:

    1) Win XP doesn't always work for all of the people all of the
    time. Is it reasonable to expect that it should? Don't know
    2) Win Vista appears to work for a majority of users with more
    problems than XP but at least people can work, but it does have
    serious issues. Since it doesn't work for all the people all of
    the time, is it reasonable to expect that it should. Don't know
    3) Linux appears to work well or even very well for some
    percentage of users, work mediocre for some other percentage of
    users, and poorly/not at all for a 3rd percentage. I don't know
    what the percentages are, they change from day to day. Since
    Linux does not work all the time for all the people, is it
    reasonable that it should, which was your question to me? Don't
    know that either!

    I'm not pulling your chain, Chris, I REALLY don't know!
    Perhaps you'd like to rephrase that. I know the capabilities of
    my nephew across old DOS, new DOS, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, Win
    2000, Win XP, and just starting to look at Vista. He has a fair
    but not complete knowledge of generic Unix. He APPEARS to be a
    rationale, intelligent person when I talk to him, so I have more
    than a little belief that what he thinks, says, and does wrt
    Linux is true and accurate. Since you are making a value
    judgement about both my nephew and me on the basis of VERY
    slender data, I'm not sure it is wise to make a statement like
    "...is without a clue". Perhaps you can see that your comment is
    insulting to me, as it suggests that I also do not have a clue,
    else I'd not be defending my nephew that you've already
    condemned.
    I already said I am not trying to pull your chain. I will simply
    repeat my philosophy and mantra: a PC is to me nothing more than
    an incredibly powerful adding machine with a slick looking
    interface. If you boil it down, all a PC can really do is crunch
    ones and zeros (yes, yes, yes, I know about 32 and 64-bit words,
    HW floating point, and the like). Yet, my PC is now, and has been
    for years in older versions, an incredibly productive tool to me
    at home for my hobbies and for some 20 years at work until I
    retired about 6 years ago.

    Let me finish my "rant" with this analogy: while I am certainly
    open to trying new things, e.g., a completely different category
    of vehicle than I have ever driven before, I do have the somewhat
    old-fashioned and romantic idea that it will have at least 4
    wheels, brakes, an engine and transmission, a steering wheel, and
    it will more or less get me from one place to another. That has
    been true since PRIOR to the Model T to today's wonders of
    technocracy. That is definitely NOT true of a gut-wrenching
    change from one philosophy of O/S to another.

    So, if it is OK with you, I'd like to do two things right now:
    stop annoying others in this NG by arguing about things I know
    nothing about,i.e., Linux, and keep on a waitin' until /I/ think
    that it can be at least as productive for me as XP.

    Thank you for your views and observations and have a great week!
     
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 9, 2007
    #67
  8. There is the third kind that use open source applications on windows (and
    why not, they work fine).
    I have yet to find a useful open source application that doesn't run on
    windows but YMMV.

    Linux is a *tiny* part of open source but some of them shout a lot
    (and usually aren't talking about Linux anyway).
     
    [email protected], Oct 9, 2007
    #68
  9. bones4jones

    chrisv Guest

    Well, it's not reasonable. Some people are going to have some apps
    which they like and that only run under Windows. OTOH, many people
    will be satisfied with the Linux equivalent "main" applications, and
    don't have any "oddball" Windows apps that they cannot live without.

    May this involve some compromise? Sure. But there's the upside of
    low/free cost, and improved security.
    Well, maybe you mis-quoted him, but the above quotations are highly
    flawed.

    Most people will not encounter "HW driver issues" if they select their
    HW with Linux support in mind. And no, for most people, that's not a
    big "drawback" - it's not like Linux-friendly hardware is hard to find
    or extra expensive.

    The fact the "some" things can only be done via command line" should
    not bother anyone, either. Very few things, IF any, on a new
    installation, MAY require typing on a command line. See that big
    thing in front of y our monitot? It's called a keyboard. It's there
    for a reason. It won't bite you.

    And "GUI still quirky"? What the hell is that suppose to mean? It's
    no more "quirky" than Windows is, often less. Different is not the
    same as worse.
    Linux has essentially the same functionality as Windows, so excuse me
    if I say your analogy is false. Learning some new ways of doing
    things need not be "gut-wrenching".
    Burn yourself a couple live CD's and try them, instead of relying on
    your nephew's opinions.
     
    chrisv, Oct 9, 2007
    #69
  10. bones4jones

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    ....
    Chris, I neither want to pick a fight for no good reason with you nor take on and
    maybe insult my nephew. Right now, I am in lurk/watchful waiting mode and not
    serious enough to bug my nephew.

    Again, please try to understand. I am 60, want to do useful work and not play with
    an O/S and try to find software that I like that works and also get my older HW to
    work. I have health issues that sap my energy and greatly reduce my ability to
    withstand frustration, and I have FAR more important things to do right now.
    Again, no insult meant to you or anyone on either side of the Linux debate, it
    just isn't for me. So, if you're trying to convince me, please understand you're
    digging a dry well.
    I obviously DO do old-fashioned "command line" things in Win XP, but only when I
    absolutely must. Again, please try to understand that my keyboard is for typing
    letters and for corresponding with people on Usenet, as now. It is NOT for me to
    revert to the DOS days. That's the whole idea behind the GUI revolution that
    became minimally usable at Win 3.1 and more reasonable with Win 95/98, but really
    didn't become stable - for me - until XP. Sorry, but I'm not in the mood for
    learning Unix-style command line strings and switches in the best tradition of DOS
    4.0.
    Chris, I am very happy for you that you are happy with Linux. What got me
    embroiled in this "debate" was the OP's subject line - "Linux just sucks" - which
    would appear at least for a first glance to indicate that not everyone is anywhere
    near as happy as you are. That's Okey, Dokey, as hardly everyone is a happy camper
    right now with Vista. Some folks were forced into Vista because they bought a new
    PC. Some were duped into upgraded by the MS marketing machine, some are people
    that just like to have the latest of anything, and some who did a deep dive,
    decided Vista was for them, and made a conscious decision to buy it. In ANY of
    those categories, as best I can observe in lurking in the Vista NGs is that there
    are plenty of problems. But then, after all these years, there's still problems
    with XP.

    I'll leave you with this quote: "better the devil you know than the devil you
    don't know", meaning, I know, understand, and am pretty satisfied with XP Pro SP2,
    and not at all willing to buy a Mac, upgrade or clean install Vista OR even dual-
    boot Linux. It just isn't in the cards for me. Again, as I have said a number of
    times, I take nothing away from people who like Linux, such as you. Or my nephew,
    whether he his elevator goes all the way to the top or not, he likes it.
    Chris, Chris, Chris, are you like a religious evangelist who goes around Bible in
    hand trying to convert pagans to Christianity? Why on God's Green Earth would I
    spend ANY time other than typing a few replies to you? I am just NOT going to go
    to Linux any time soon, maybe not for years and years, maybe never. Nothing you
    say, anybody says including my nephew whether he is sane or not is going to change
    my mind right now. XP works. I am satisfied.

    Gotta run, the Republican presidential candidates debate is on, far more important
    right now than my PC.
     
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 9, 2007
    #70
  11. bones4jones

    chrisv Guest

    Oh, I see. You're just trolling me. Well done. Idiot.
     
    chrisv, Oct 9, 2007
    #71
  12. bones4jones

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    chrisv added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
    I'm trolling no one. YOU are a total mental defective in arguing a
    case for a dozen posts that you cannot possibly win. Why don't you
    spend your energy on making your shit Linux do what you like and
    leave me alone. In short, I am no longer going to reply to your
    mind numbing stupid arguments. You can either plonk or ignore me in
    future, but I'm outta here.

    Now, to any normal people wondering about whether Ubandu or
    whatever Linux is or is not a viable alternative to Windows
    anything, I will certainly read your rational comments on either
    side of the controversy. We only learn by hearing new things; where
    I draw the line is when learning turns into some sort of activity
    where I might say is over-zealousness.

    To everyone else, have a very pleasant week.
     
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 10, 2007
    #72
  13. I am a new user of Ubuntu (a Linux distro), that installed faultlessly
    and configured itself so I could immediately access my local network,
    all very impressive. Now the downside, how do I install my printer?

    Installing a printer is far from straight forward, at least for me (HP
    2280 Businessjet). It appears you are required to have an advanced
    degree in 'geekese' to fathom out the process. I am sure once you
    spend the time to become familiar with 'geek speak' it all becomes
    easy but for a novice, no way.

    There is absolutely no way Linux is going to become 'main stream' when
    mundane tasks are so obscure to 'everyday' folk. I will persevere as
    I have both the time and interest but those with neither would very
    quickly come to the decision 'this is not for me', as you have done..
     
    Edward W. Thompson, Oct 10, 2007
    #73
  14. bones4jones

    sittingduck Guest

    The main argument the linux zealots like to use is that it's safe, and that
    you can be free from the bloat and crashing of windows.
    The problem is that unless all you do is check email and surf the web, linux
    is going to blow. Severely limited software options relative to windows,
    unfriendly interface, drivers that are years behind, and a fairly steep
    learning curve.
    Anyone with the experience and knowledge to actually USE linux, DOES NOT HAVE
    THE PROBLEMS LINUX ZEALOTS LOVE TO HOLD UP AGAINST WINDOWS. Because they will
    also have the ability to CONFIGURE AND SECURE WINDOWS. (It's not that hard)
    Linux kicks ass for servers though. :)
     
    sittingduck, Oct 10, 2007
    #74
  15. Edward W. Thompson wrote:

    Bullshit.

    KDE Control Centre > Peripherals > Printer > Log in as Administrator > Add
    Printer. Search down the list > click on HP > 2280 Businessjet. It installs
    HP's "hpijs" driver. Ubuntu also has "HP's Printer Toolbox" which should
    already be installed by default: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/hplip

    And YES, the printer does work in linux:
    http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-Business_Inkjet_2280
    Except they *aren't* obscure.
    If they're not prepared to do a few simple steps, they should probably stick
    with windoze.
     
    William Poaster, Oct 10, 2007
    #75
  16. bones4jones

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Edward W. Thompson added these comments in the current
    discussion du jour ...
    Edward, methinketh the real troll was the person engaging ME in
    endless debates. Yours is just another data point in my mental
    pros and cons accumulation of data and mental evaluation of the
    readiness of Linux to be "ready for prime time on the desktop" -
    FOR ME. That phrase means "can I install Linux, get all my new
    and old SW and HW to run and be able to work with it with no more
    necessity to be a computer science major or technie geek than
    does Windows XP." NO O/S and NO app or utility is completely free
    of the need to know what one is doing and be at least a little
    technically savvy, although the amount of techie knowledge varies
    widely.

    Forgetting my nephew completely, since even mentioning him
    enrages people, just about whenever I read some comments on the
    "pro" side of the "is Linux ready?" debate - not the "bigots" or
    "zealots" - and I at least begin to debate in my mind if I want
    to dig into it further, along comes a comment like yours.

    I wish you well in solving whatever problems you're having and
    thank you for your perspective on this.
     
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 10, 2007
    #76
  17. bones4jones

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    sittingduck added these comments in the current discussion du
    jour ...
    Duck, my professional knowledge of information security went out
    the window when I retired almost 8 years ago, which is an
    eternity when thinking about how much more sophisticated the bad
    guys have become in just that time span. But, I think a saying I
    learned about way back in 1997 or so still applies: "the only 2
    kinds of people that can categorically claim they have never been
    compromised are the ignorant or the arrogant."

    So, believing that I am neither totally ignorant - everybody is
    at least some - and I'm not arrogant, I don't think I can make
    myself completely safe without taking such draconian steps that I
    basically cannot do anything at all on-line or even allowing my
    SW to communicate with their seller, e.g., Windows updates,
    without a major PITA. So, my path has been to install a SW
    firewall and extended malware protection AND periodically do as
    comprehensive malware scans as I know how to do with a reasonable
    amount of money and time. Seems to work, but then I will never be
    sure.

    There IS a political side to the security debate, however. A
    whole LOT of people hate MS or Bill Gates or something enough
    that they take great delight in intentional fooking with MS by
    writing malware that annoys their customers. Yes, Windows is a
    security swiss cheese and that allows these people who are just
    pissed at the world easy access to a vulnerability. There's a
    growing population of Apple Mac users to the point where it
    appears they may become a drain on MS's revenues in future but
    not nearly as many people hate Steve Jobs as Bill Gates and the
    Mac O/S isn't nearly as open as windows, so maybe that explains
    why Macs aren't under so much danger of attack.

    I obviously cannot comment on Linux enjoying a relatively low
    security risk, but looking at it in a political way as above, I
    doubt that any bad guys hate anyone developing Linux enough to
    intentionally write malware just to annoy them. Also, even bad
    guys have limited time so it pays them to concentrate on where
    the money is - Windows, and to a lesser extent, Macs. By "money",
    I'm talking more about identity theft, phishing, spyware, and the
    like and less so viruses and trojans that bring a system down.

    If/when Linux becomes a major player in PC O/S and enrages or
    encourages enough bad guys, I see no reason why it, too, won't
    become a target.
     
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 10, 2007
    #77
  18. sittingduck wrote:

    <snip>

    Utter bullshit.
    But you always were full of it.

    <plonk>
     
    William Poaster, Oct 10, 2007
    #78
  19. HEMI-Powered wrote:

    And pray tell, in what way "a target"? As *most* of the internet runs on
    GNU/LInux, don't you think it would *already* be a target? However the
    majority of *attacks* are on M$. Why? Because it's *easier*, just like the
    desktops. By default, a linux distro is harder to attack than windows. This
    isn't to say that it can't be attacked, but what's the easiest way to enter
    a house, through a door or trying to get through a brick wall....
    http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2005/01/20/unpatched-linux-still-better-than-windows

    BTW, FYI Ballmer called GNU/Linux the "Number One Threat" to Microsoft.
    Go figure.
     
    William Poaster, Oct 10, 2007
    #79
  20. bones4jones

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    William Poaster added these comments in the current discussion
    du jour ...

    William, please forgive the top-posting if you can. I do not have
    nearly enough knowledge to even discuss what the OP asserts or
    your completely opposite view, so I will hardly dispute either of
    you. Perhaps you and others on one "side" or the other of the "Is
    Linux a good O/S or not?" debate can understand and at least
    appreciate a little bit what some of us confused folks see as no
    clear consensus. Again, I refute and insult either the pro-Linux
    or the anti-Linux people, I'm just confused. So, I'll ask a
    question that covers your entire post: absent the OP being
    technically deficient, how can he and you feel so differently
    about something so fundamental as installing a printer?

    Thank you and have a great day!
     
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 10, 2007
    #80
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