Life of Inkjet inks on Prints?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mac Lynch, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. Mac Lynch

    Mac Lynch Guest

    Kia Ora
    I have a few mounted but no glass prints around the house in indirect light &
    noticed them to be fading over the last 12 months.
    I use HP genuine ink cartridges & they claim to be longlife. Does that refer to
    photos in albums away from light? In NZ here, the U/V light level is pretty
    high, would that be making a difference?
    Does the type of printing paper used have an effect?
    BTW, I have been using HP everyday photo paper recently & very pleased with the
    results & also the price. Maybe we are getting a good deal on that! $NZ14/100
    sheets.
     
    Mac Lynch, Mar 4, 2004
    #1
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  2. Mac Lynch

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: (Mac Lynch)
    Until the most recent models the HP printers weren't noted for long projected
    (estimated) print life.

    Here's a good write-up on how to protect your prints and on what type of print
    life you might expect, with a nice summary chart on the third page.

    http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105461,pg,1,00.asp

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Mar 4, 2004
    #2
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  3. Mac Lynch

    bob Guest

    (Mac Lynch) wrote in
    I thought it meant "many prints," as in the cartridge has a long life
    because it holds a lot of ink.

    I've got HP inkjet prints going back a decade. The ones exposed to light
    (including light bulbs) fade quickly. The ones kept in file folders
    continue to look new.

    Bob
     
    bob, Mar 4, 2004
    #3
  4. Mac Lynch

    M. MacDonald Guest

    That chart on page 3 seems optimistic. 73 years for an HP print? 90 for an
    Epson. 38 for a Canon?

    Sorry, I don't buy any of it. Data (circa 2002) seems dated as well since
    most of the printers are obsolete as well.

    Remember. They told us CD-R/RW's would last for ages too. Too bad some are
    becoming corrupt after two years.

    Mack
     
    M. MacDonald, Mar 4, 2004
    #4
  5. Mac Lynch

    Peter Booth Guest

    Hi Mac, Sounds like a real good deal with the paper at 14 bucks per ton. Is
    it glossy ? and if it is who is selling it at that price ?, hope its in
    Auckland Thanks Pete
     
    Peter Booth, Mar 4, 2004
    #5
  6. Mac Lynch

    Mac Lynch Guest

    Kia Ora Pete
    It's described as semi-gloss Photo paper, 210x295mm
    6.5mil
    170g/sq metre
    and sold by
    DICK Smith!
    HP Semi-gloss photo Paper.
    Mac
     
    Mac Lynch, Mar 5, 2004
    #6
  7. I think longevity claims are outrageous. I gave framed inkjet prints to
    family to find in less than three years their colors had shifted. Now get
    this... I printed over 150 8X10's and immediately put them in a wedding
    album for my son in 2000. Every freakin' sheet has color shifted. Time and
    money down the drain. The claims were the same back then as they are now.
    I switched to dye-sub early in 2001. So far they are holding up regardless
    of whether I have them or they're under someone else's care.
    When you work on something you can't help but get emotionally upset when
    they turn to sh!t. I never see people get so upset over film prints that go
    bad.
     
    mark_digital©, Mar 5, 2004
    #7
  8. Mac Lynch

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Such predictions must be taken with a 'grain of salt', since there is
    really no way to test their lifetime under 'real world' condition,
    except to wait many years and collect evidence. What they do is
    estimate from the chemical properties and destructive testing.
     
    Ron Hunter, Mar 5, 2004
    #8
  9. Mac Lynch

    Tom Monego Guest

    All depends on ink/paper combinations, the 73 years is only for HP Photo inks
    for their latest printer, don't expect much from HP before 2004. The Epson
    Ultrachrome inks have been out for a year or so, they have tested to 70 or so
    years, Epsons 1st set of pigment inks had test that went to the 200 years
    range, but you won't get it for any other desktop printer than the 2000P
    (older pigmentink) and the 2200 Ultrachrome. Actually the C84 may be the
    sleeper here, pigmented inks and under $100. BUT don't expect much from Epson
    dye inks, they are disasterous for several Epson papers esp Premium Luster.
    Canon's has worked had on their latest dye inks and I would expect an 40 year
    life on selected papers. I use a dye ink and my prints last longer than color
    photos in south window tests.
    Moral- don't expect much from desktop printers unless you use specific ink
    paper combination.

    Tom
     
    Tom Monego, Mar 5, 2004
    #9
  10. Mac Lynch

    JIM Guest

    Hey Mark, what happend to "digital is free?" What's all this "time and money
    down the drain?" Quit that printing stuff, stick it all on a disk and let'em
    view it on their TV;) Also, thought the beauty of the digital dew was only
    having to reprint the file when/if the print went bad?
    What's-time-gotta-do-with-it - think of all the fun time you get to spend on
    your computer redoing all that stuff;) Also, when your real job goes south,
    you could go online as the guru of photoshop!

    Shoot'em up, with anything, Agfa, Fuji, Kodak and all the rest will love you
    for it!!

    Jim
     
    JIM, Mar 5, 2004
    #10
  11. Three years ago, I printed a family photo and put it in a frame between two
    sheets of glass. The print is about an inch taller and wider than the
    glass, so some of it is sticking out. It sits in a room where it usually
    isn't hit by direct sunlight. From time to time, I carefully compare the
    protected and unprotected parts of the print, and can see no sign of fading.

    The print was made on a HP Deskjet 730c, ewith HP inks on Kodak paper.

    I recently took a picture of a Tiffany stained glass window, and printed it
    on the same printer on transparency film. It sits in a window, directly on
    the glass, where it gets full afternoon sun. I'm watching to see how soon
    it fades.
     
    Marvin Margoshes, Mar 5, 2004
    #11
  12. Mac Lynch

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: "M. MacDonald"
    These numbers are all based on accelerated testing.
    On one model with ONE specific paper type ... when the same printer and ink was
    used on a different paper the test showed only three years estimated print
    life.
    Again, depends on the inks and paper ... the > 25-27 year Epson estimates are
    all for pigment inks, some of which have been tested out to 200 years estimated
    print life.
    They are all projections based on accelerated light tests ... the same tests
    have been in place for a long enough time now (since the 1970's) that Wilhelm
    can compare actual results with projected results and come up with reciprocity
    factors, which you can read about in his book (available free on his website
    now as a pdf).

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Mar 5, 2004
    #12
  13. Mac Lynch

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: "mark_digital©"
    You should have been around 15 years ago before Wilhelm published his book,
    when every company ran their own tests and cherry-picked data and test
    conditions to make truly "outrageous" claims ... Kodak claimed their prints
    lasted "a lifetime" (Wilhelm's tests said 14-18 years ...) and Ciba-Geigy was
    claiming Cibachromes (now Ilfochromes) lasted "forever" (Wilhelm's tests said
    29 years before the yellow started fading ...). At least now we have a common
    way of comparing the test results.
    What printer, what ink and what paper? Some of the Epson paper/ink combos are
    rated at about 6 months before fading, others are rated over 200 years,
    depending on the ink and paper.
    If you used one of the printers with the original OEM inks on the recommended
    papers and didn't get stable prints for as long as they say (assuming they were
    stored properly) then you should definitely contact the vendor and explain what
    happened.

    If you used a different brand of paper or different inks or one of the earlier
    business model printers with 2 year projected print life then you got about
    what we'd expect.

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Mar 5, 2004
    #13
  14. It refers to fully protected photos under UV glass, but the claims are
    still way off. I've printed a lot of advanced, ~75 year, inkjet stuff
    on Epson and HP on properly matched paper, they all fade and shift and
    fairly quickly.

    Try an online lab that creates actual light exposed, then chemically
    developed photographic emulsions (i.e not surface prints) from digital
    files on real silver halide paper. They'll last more than a lifetime
    and they generally cost less after inkjet ink and paper is considered.
     
    George Preddy, Mar 6, 2004
    #14
  15. Mac Lynch

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Not much action in your life, is there? Grin.
     
    Ron Hunter, Mar 6, 2004
    #15
  16. Mac Lynch

    mark_digital Guest

    One fourth of my basement is a digital workshop. I would never say anything
    that has to do with computers is free or next to nothing.
     
    mark_digital, Mar 6, 2004
    #16
  17. Mac Lynch

    Tom Monego Guest



    George,
    What did you use for paper - ink combinations. I ahve dye prints (not Epson)
    that have out lasted photo prints in south window tests, BUT I ahve also had
    prints fade on dye recommended papers in 6 months on the wall, no bright sun.
    Have prints on the wall of my studio that are 4 years old. With pigment based
    inks most of the micropourous papers do well. Thesre are papers that don't ie
    Epson "Archival Matte" which wasn't. No I'm hereing bad things about the Epson
    Sommerset Velvet, regular SV has long been a favorite of critical printers. But
    the Epson batch seems to yellow in months. Then again I have several canveases
    in the studio that are 2 + years old that folks comment on the color gamut,
    these are unprotected, not even a UV spray.
    I'm always trying to get info on bad ink paper combinations.

    Tom
     
    Tom Monego, Mar 6, 2004
    #17
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