Lies about Linux

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    zwisch Guest

    I am doing research about technology strategy, and this thread has all
    the elements to be iconic

    1- An intrepid early adopter trying a new way to do things - and
    cautiously trying his feet on the water first (smart!)
    2- Who becomes frustrated for a problems he does not understand - and
    why should he? Is this an application? Or is ubuntu just the basement
    over which he intends to build something? He did not need to care for
    much while installing windows xp!
    3- A bunch of technologists stating how stupid is the user - because
    users are always stupid, no matter if they are composing music or
    studying pure physics; they don't understand computers, then they are
    just stupid.
    4- Lack of interest of the technologists to understand the human side
    of the problem "We technologists like so much machines, that we
    ceased to care for the people - the user". Those stupid users pay
    your salary in a direct or indirect way...
    5- Loses and isolation on the Linux side (if you don't like to play
    with me, I will play with myself, my own toys, and ignore the trolling
    user) I go to my corner, and speak about power sources, motherboards,
    and how smart I am solving REAL problems.
    6- Linux as a system and as community making it difficult (on purpose?)
    for the average person to use linux. We are the priests and priestesses
    of The Computer; you users should not be allowed in here.

    Technologists are clearly smart, yet, they fail in social skills. None
    of them thought of the time when they did not know how to dance, and
    were frustrated for not being able to. Sure, you can invest time
    learning to dance, and yet, some of you chose to do other things with
    their time, investment that was judged more beneficial to the final
    goal of finding boyfriend-girlfriend. Because dancing is not an end on
    itself.

    Reality is that computers are not an end on themselves too, except for
    a 0.1% of the world (Luckily for that 0.1%, because otherwise they
    wouldn't have work). Computers are used and paid for people that want
    to solve problems outside computing, and that is the benefit of using
    computers. This intrepid early adopter invested money and time to try
    to do something new (which 99% of the users don't). The computer did
    not deliver any benefit (and for him, and 99.9% of the mortals,
    learning hardware, linux, postings, etc are not a benefit)

    You can be very proud of the knowledge you mastered, but, it seems that
    ubuntu is not yet ready for the average user. Windows on the other
    hand, did not require an extensive understanding of hardware.

    I am facing a similar situation as del/alt/something. I really like
    technology, and I was able to install ubuntu successfully; yet, I do
    have other duties, and I am hesitant on how much of my time should I
    invest learning linux, and how useful it would be for me. You see, I
    don't do computers for computers' sake, I do computers because they
    help me do my "real" work. If the cost of using linux -timewise-
    exceeds the benefits I will get, maybe, it is just too much. At the end
    of the day, linux is free, but, a windows license costs me just 6 hours
    of work salary-wise. Will it take me just 6 hours to learn enough
    linux? Surely not, I have already invested more than 40, and I am still
    a beginner.
     
    zwisch, Mar 5, 2006
    #61
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  2. ".....after YEARS of tweaking."??? I've spend less than five minutes
    on Ubuntu. I don't have "....years of tweaking." I barely have five
    minutes to sit on the toliet.

    Linux of the future will make happy computers, therefore happy computer
    owners.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
    @}-}-------Rosee, Mar 5, 2006
    #62
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  3. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    mistletoad Guest

    In THIS case, it doesn't matter WHAT was done, to WHAT operating
    system, and HOW LONG it took. The only thing that matters NOW is
    that it WAS done and does not need ANY MORE time/brain cell
    investment.

    I SAID I believe (from what I have read etc.) that Linux is
    superior, but even if it take me only 5 hours to get it running
    as well as my Windows machines do (which is HIGHLY doubtful
    judging by responses of people with more knowledge and
    intelligence than I possess), it will NONETHELESS be 5 hours
    wasted.

    If my machines constantly crashed and gave me problems, maybe it
    would be worth it. But they run perfectly. Too bad it takes
    years (as you so gracefully underlined) to make a M$ product
    behave the way it should. Still, it is DONE and OVER WITH.

    Regards.

    Follow?
     
    mistletoad, Mar 5, 2006
    #63
  4. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    mistletoad Guest

    <SNIP> (with all respect)

    How NICE to see someone who is not totally blinded by all the
    crap thrown at us by monkey-manufacturers who toy with a captive
    audience of sheep who are THE ones behind bars.

    How nice to see a glimpse of sanity in the Usenet.

    Cheers.
     
    mistletoad, Mar 5, 2006
    #64
  5. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Seatoller Guest

    On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 12:15:04 -0600, mistletoad wrote:

    I doubt you could get your windows boxes running as well as I have my
    linux boxes, & certainly didn't take me 5 hours to get it running! For one
    thing, I didn't need to defrag after installation (which took about
    45minutes, including /all/ the applications I want & the OpenOffice
    suit straight off the DVD), & only needed to reboot once because of a
    kernel upgrade.
    In your case, probably.
     
    Seatoller, Mar 5, 2006
    #65
  6. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Whiskers Guest

    I think you missed the point.
    There isn't one of them in this thread.
    Who installed Windows XP?
    No, a bunch of people pointing out the obvious lying and inconsistency in
    the original poster's squirming attempts to add fog to fog.
    Now you are not reading the same thread as me at all. Are you in fact
    'mistletoad'?
    Very imaginative of you.
    Oh, your imagination just fell over the edge into delusion.

    snip
    So /why/ did you try to use a completely different operating system from
    the one you are used to (and have such a huge investment of learning in)?
     
    Whiskers, Mar 5, 2006
    #66
  7. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    jump Guest

    I agree with you mistletoad, and I give kudos to
    (Del¤+/Ctrl+¤/Alt¤+) for taking the time to express his point, and
    make the people around here feel what it is like when things dont work
    as intended. There are other versions of linux that present other
    attributes, yet, the main characteristic of ubuntu was to be accessible
    to the average user, and that has not been delivered so far.

    Mr. (Del¤+/Ctrl+¤/Alt¤+) not only spent time getting information of
    what were the characteristics he wanted for a winxp replacement (fast
    learning curve, installation without worries), but also sent money to
    buy CDs, provide resources to do the test (time and hardware), and most
    important, took the time to enter to this usenet site, and say what he
    thinks.

    For every (Del¤+/Ctrl+¤/Alt¤+) speaking up, there are 20 that didnt
    bother!!!
    People, like me, who tried ubuntu (and RH9, Fedora3, and 4), didnt like
    how it felt to type in Sanskrit on a terminal screen, and got back to
    old trusty winxp..

    You know why we don't complain? Because killing the messenger is the
    typical answer.

    My research is not on software technology, but, the case is always the
    same: the more difficult and abstruse the theme, the more likely it
    will be surrounded by a core fanatic group, who will not allow anybody
    else in the clique. This self-centered group at the same time, because
    of being isolated, makes it even more abstruse the technology and
    becomes more secluded in a self-reinforcing loop.

    I have been able to catch most of the tricks that winxp has. I really
    dont like M$ and I have done my part trying linux, and being a hardcore
    firefox user, but, so far M$ is the only one delivering on what I need
    for OS.
     
    jump, Mar 5, 2006
    #67
  8. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    jump Guest

    Hi whiskers,

    Did I? A user complains of not receiving what he was expecting to; and
    a bunch of technologists insisted that on what they know and they have.
    Once you become less fixated with the set of things you know, and
    become more interested in the set of things other people needs, then,
    technology would be able to go forward.

    This is the same as bashing apple, for the ipod. The ipod makes dumb
    people happy; dumb people have money; dumb people give money to the
    ipod maker. The ipod might have lots of mistakes, but it is a success
    in marketing because delivers on its promises. You don't need to know
    your hardware, or to partition anything, it just plays music.
    ?? wow, were I standing in front of the dart, that would have bruised
    me.. luckily I made a zwisch.. =D
    That seems a pretty strange question ! The User needs not to care about
    partitioning in windows... user opens box, user inserts disk, windows
    is installed. I don't like M$, but we have to acknowledge, they have
    done a good work here.
    fog to fog, because his hardware didn't work with what was supposed
    to be a super-easy OS?
    sure the user is lying, because installing linux is fool-proof, and
    linux is ready for the average user. There is not worst blind than the
    one that does not want to see.
    'mistletoad'?

    ===== bmmbeeep ====
    wrong answer - I am jump!, answering to mistletoad's comment
    This is not imagination, but comments between two posters of this
    thread about motherboards and power sources. The only person who took
    care of asking what was wrong was Ace Hung, that was post 62! And this
    is helpdesk!!!
    yeah sure . . . as if there is no business to be lost if those stupid
    users understand the gods we are guarding... and finally get Personal
    Computers, instead of using the mainframe with punching cards and air
    conditioned rooms.

    snip
    I am
    Another intrepid user, trying to learn something that <<possibly>>
    might be useful;
    Another early adopter, who likes technology, but is not making a living
    out of it;
    It is through people who dare to go outside its comfort zone that
    technologies get to the mainstream... the inner core of fanatics are
    just unable to think outside their box.

    If you are not a fanatic, you are then delusional...

    Get sun! (not the one that was the dot of dot com, but the real one)

    jump!
     
    jump, Mar 5, 2006
    #68
  9. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Seatoller Guest

    I'll say.
    Yes, who?
    Heh! With the attitude the "intrepid early adopter" had, it's not
    surprising we stopped taking notice of him.
    Sure did. These yo-yo's never heard of a Live-Evaluation disk like
    knoppix, that you can simply pop into the CD (or DVD) drive & boot up
    with? No mystery, no messing about, runs straight from the disk..slow,
    granted, but it runs. Great for checking out if the hardware is compatible.
    I dunno, however linux admins are paid a *lot* more than windows ones, &
    usually have less to do, simply because it's not as much hassle as trying
    to maintain windows machines.
     
    Seatoller, Mar 5, 2006
    #69
  10. Admiral-Sea-Cream is damn having an Linux organism on the thread.

    Duane :)
     
    K-Man hater Duane, Mar 6, 2006
    #70
  11. Thank you jump. I feel exactly the way that you described me as
    feeling. I was simply a Windows user trying to make the leap from a
    Windows OS to the Linux OS, trying to do what I thought was a good thing.

    What do I get for it? Trouble and heartache. Vindictive meanness and
    petty name calling. It is almost as if the Linux users are just playing
    a game. First of all they try to persuade you to use Linux and talk up
    all of the good points of the OS. Then when you finally do attempt the
    switch, the very ones who are always talking about how everyone should
    use Linux because it is the only 'real' operating system, are the same
    ones that ridicule you and slam you for being too stupid to know how to
    use Linux.

    They tell you to read a book, go to college, call you moron, and ask you
    why you don't have a brain to use like normal human beings do. I almost
    believe that they do it on purpose, try to lure you into using Linux and
    then offer no help once you try it, except to opine about how you could
    be so clueless as to not be able to use it.

    To hell with Linux is what I have decided to say. I have already
    un-installed Ubuntu and am back to regular old XP. The OS that makes it
    easy and pleasant to be a computer user. I don't have to know how to
    build an engine to drive a car. I don't have to be a skilled
    electrician and know how to build a T.V to watch television. I don't
    have to know how to make a airplane hull to be able to sit in an
    airplane an go places. So why in the hell should I have to know a
    computer inside and out just to be able to use one? Answer: I don't.


    Alt
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Ctrl=A4+/Alt+=A4/Del=A4+=29=2, Mar 6, 2006
    #71
  12. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    jump Guest

    Sure did. These yo-yo's never heard of a Live-Evaluation disk like
    once again, techno-nonsense. Were the user to do that, the system would
    have not worked, and the same thing would have happened... no linux,
    linux is crap.
    you totally missed the point: ubuntu intent was to bring linux out to
    sun tanned people.

    As of now, linux belongs to admins cubicles, and that was
    alt/del/something point.
    You are anything but supporting his point.

    Windows machines are a hassle? sure they are, but the average folk is
    doing just ok with them; drivers exist, drm works, ipods connect, and
    arcane guts are hidden.

    Are windows boxes good for webservers? Are windows admins well paid?
    Are them busy? Do they eat donuts? I really dont care, I only care if
    the webpage is served, that is the only tangible benefit for me.

    enjoy the sun!
     
    jump, Mar 6, 2006
    #72
  13. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Whiskers Guest

    Ah, now that sounds like a pretty good reason :))
     
    Whiskers, Mar 6, 2006
    #73
  14. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Whiskers Guest

    The answer is ... ?
    Sounds just like what SuSE, Red Hat, Mandriva, FreeBSD, Debian, ... have
    actually achieved.

    Microsoft haven't; when did you last try to install Windows from a boxed
    set, on a machine built without regard to the Windows-compatibility of the
    components, and without even knowing the identity of some of the components?
    That's the situation most people are in when they first try to install
    Linux on an existing PC - and it usually does install just fine - along
    with all the applications most people will need to 'get started', unlike
    Windows where you have to find and install each one seperately before you
    can do anything useful.

    The user need not care about partitioning in Linux; the installation will
    take care of any that needs doing - including keeping an existing Windows
    system intact if one is found and the user wants to keep it.
    No, because he didn't say what his hardware was or ask how to get it
    working. That isn't someone looking for help, that's someone trying to
    stir up FUD.

    snip
    So why is Microsoft so scared of Linux? Why is Linux steadily gaining
    more and more users? Why are most of the machines that keep the internet
    working, not using a Microsoft operating system? Why was the internet
    created by people who were not using Microsoft operating systems?
    Linux has been around for about 15 years, and Unix since the '60s; you are
    not an 'early adopter'.

    I switched about two years ago. So I'm not an early adopter either.
    Ummm ... there's a box? Who was it got Linux started and keep it going?
    Why?
    Perhaps when you've finished making personal insults you can find the
    energy to learn a little about the system you say you are interested in,
    and ask sensible questions rather than rant about 'it doesn't work'.

    There are newsgroups dedicated to discussing Linux and helping people with
    it; some are actually specific to particular distros, some are more
    general. Some of them will ignore stupid trolling posts, or 'flame' them
    in a way that will make this thread look positively beneficent (which it
    is, in a way).
     
    Whiskers, Mar 6, 2006
    #74
  15. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    jump Guest

    This situation is just funny. I am being trolled myself now.. haha
    from personal experience, neither redhat 9, fedora 3 and 4 were
    <<easy>> to install. specifically fedora 3 and 4 required a setting of
    non-dma for the cd-rom on the machine I was installing them. Did I get
    the info? yes, on a windows machine, looking on google.
    So, not achieved truly.
    Dont you remember abort fail or cancel?? what do you answer when asked
    about partitions? do you need a swap? how large?
    Again, you can go around and look for those, but, in the meanwhile my
    work falls behind. You see, I dont earn bread by learning this stuff. .
    ..
    It seems you never got frustrated with computers. Well, this is your
    territory, right?
    Maybe to understand the user, you might need to think about things were
    you dont master the skill.
    I will be happiest when linux, which is free, open and peace and love
    finally kicks M$ ass. In the meanwhile, it will be better for
    developers to listen and learn what the users need. Maybe linux will
    never get to the desktop, and that will be just fine; but if the
    intention is to get to the desktop, then, the community shouldnt attack
    the customer.

    unix, and linux are old, that's known, to try to use it as everyday
    system for a non-technology user is new; and that makes the world of
    difference.
    Thanks for your constructive advice. I am still pondering if that is a
    useful thing to do with my time.

    What I do for a living is to analyze the dynamics of technology; and as
    I said when I posted my first message, this thread is iconic.

    Closed communities that want to remain closed, become isolated and
    radical. It is people as shuttleworth who have vision to try to port
    the thing to the mainstream. Dont be surprised if he actually does
    money on this, while the techno-fanatics are sidelined, once again. dya
    remember woz and jobs?

    jump
     
    jump, Mar 6, 2006
    #75
  16. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    mistletoad Guest

    GFY. I have lots of free time but I am not going to spend it
    painting my house light grey if dark grey is just fine. Maybe if
    you understood the most basic logic you would have more free
    time to sit on the toilet and make things.
    Yes, "OF THE FUTURE". From what I have read here, neither
    XtraPrying/XtraProblems (take your pick - and if you think it is
    the "best Windows ever", go to the link provided below - many
    people say similar things but he appears the most eloquent and
    educated of the lot) or Linux are practical alternatives to a
    supremely tweaked (yes it takes LOTS of time and LOTS of 3rd
    party applications - Microsoft are great salesmen - in the VERY
    worst sense of the word - not software engineers, and we all
    know it) and well-running 95B or 98SE Lite (hardcore 120 fps 3-D
    online gamers excluded - they have their own problems which
    would require a thread in a juvenile psychology group).

    Go ahead and flame me. I bet you're one of those pathetic
    products of The American Consumer Society who enjoy throwing 3
    grand in the garbage every year by trading in the car that's
    barely one year old.

    If it works and does everything I need, it's not obsolete.
    AFAAC, it's THAT simple.

    BTW, SO clever, yet top-posts in a thread where it actually
    matters not to.
     
    mistletoad, Mar 6, 2006
    #76
  17. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Mara Guest

    <snip>

    You really didn't need to post 69 lines just to proclaim that you're a idiot. :)

    "Buh-bye, now."
     
    Mara, Mar 6, 2006
    #77
  18. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Meat Plow Guest

    You complete and utter illiterate fool.
     
    Meat Plow, Mar 6, 2006
    #78
  19. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    Whiskers Guest

    snip
    You reveal that you have not in fact tried to install any recent 'big
    name' Linux distro.

    Only an idiot would try to do anything important and in a hurry using
    totally unfamiliar tools. Walk before you run. Can you remember how long
    it took for you to feel familiar with Windows?

    snip
    snip

    Iconic certainly; but not of 'technology' or 'technologists' or indeed
    anything 'tech....'. Which you would know if you could actually analyse.
     
    Whiskers, Mar 6, 2006
    #79
  20. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22=28Del=A4+/Ctrl+=A4/Alt=A4+=29=2

    mistletoad Guest

    Yes, amazing how ONE sentence will often suffice.
    Wow, haven't heard THIS morsel of brilliance and originality in
    a while....
     
    mistletoad, Mar 6, 2006
    #80
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