Keyboard "skipping"

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by ChrisCoaster, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    Thanks Paul - you are really on top of your game! Alas, " • Symantec
    NCO BHO"

    is not in the list. As of this morning if I double click on the
    Norton icon n the systray it will slowdown/ crash the whole computer.
    I need to get in touch with Norton as I have a paid-up account with
    them and they should be able to fix this.

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 7, 2011
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  2. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest


    Well, now that you have "FoxNewsed" both major AV softwares, why don't
    you take the high road and suggest some pay-for or shared AV software
    you recommend? Oh, and "Go get a new keyboard" - that was

    Chris"We Report: You Shut Up"Coaster!
    ChrisCoaster, Jul 7, 2011
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  3. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    Paul, you are really on to p of your game!(sorr if this doupble posts
    - you know Google Groups) unfortunately, " • Symantec NCO BHO" is
    not listed under the symantec items in addon manager. Otherwise, all
    symantec items listed are "enabled".

    It is now the point where if I click on the Norton Icoon in systray,
    nothing ahppens, and the whol pc runs slower. I have a paid up
    subscription with Norton so I will be contacting them to helop me fix
    this - and hoepfully this GO$#$#(M KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If someothers could be like you Paul this NG wuld rally shine.

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 7, 2011
  4. ChrisCoaster embroidered on the monitor :

    Antivirus programs is a topic that comes up frequently here.

    Norton has a long, bad reputation for digging its roots into all kinds
    of little nooks and crannies in your hard drive and causing tech
    problems by interfering with things.

    McAfee has less of its reputation, but is hard at work trying to
    acquire it. :)

    As Jeff pointed out about trying to remove Norton, it's not an easy
    thing. There are software programs out there whose whole function is
    to help you remove Norton.

    You're best bet on an Antivirus program is a combination of freeware

    For real-time antivirus protection as well as system scanning, you
    should probably go with either Avast or AVG. There are a couple
    others. Personally, I STRONGLY recommend Avast.

    For secondary system scanning, you should get Malwarebytes.

    The combination of the two programs keeps your system in good shape.

    You can get both programs for free, or you can buy the Pro versions
    that give you even more features - but unlike a lot of freeware
    programs, both of these freeware versions are functional, reputable
    programs as they are, not half-functional demo versions.

    You can get these, or several other AV programs, along with a Norton
    removal tool, at

    or most any freeware sites.

    Keep up the good fight!

    -There are some who call me...

    "What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean
    that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel
    good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"
    -Gandalf, after Bilbo Baggins says "Good Morning"
    James D Andrews, Jul 7, 2011
  5. _______________________

    Well, now that you have "FoxNewsed" both major AV softwares, why don't
    you take the high road and suggest some pay-for or shared AV software
    you recommend? Oh, and "Go get a new keyboard" - that was

    Chris"We Report: You Shut Up"Coaster!

    I'm confused. Aren't YOU the guy with a keyboard that can't spell? Aren't
    you the guy with Norton AND a virual enhancement to your system? Aren't you
    the guy with stuff that repeatedly turns itself on or off (whichever you
    want, it does the other)?

    I have virus protection that works and a keyboard that hits all of the
    letters. And my HDD does not need to be reformatted and my OS does not need
    to be reinstalled.

    You really should not argue with the answer to the questions you bring to
    the table.

    You can keep paying Guido to watch the store for you. While you are at it,
    get a fox or two to keep track of the chickens.
    Jeff Strickland, Jul 7, 2011
  6. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest


    out of all of you have replied to my issue the only level-headed
    information and suggestions have come from PAUL. I will spell it out
    for the rest of you:

    B E F O R E m y P C s u f f e r e d a b l u n t i m p
    a c t i t e x h i b i t e d N O N E o f t h e a b o v
    e i s s u e s !

    All of the issues - the keyboard, etc, the Norton acting funny, ahve
    been after I restored my system over the course of the past week.

    Now kindly tell me, what part of the second sentence don't you get?

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 7, 2011
  7. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest


    Out of all the replies to my problems the only really level-headed and
    logical suggestions have come from PAUL. For the rest of you I will
    spell it out:

    B E F O R E m y P C s u f f e r e d b l u n t t r a u m
    a i t e x h i b i t e d N O N E o f t h e a b o v e i s s
    u e s ! ! !

    It has been only AFTER restoring the computer with the HP recovery
    DVDs that these quirky issues with the keyboard and Norton have

    I hope the second sentence makes it crystal clear to the rest of you
    what is going on here.

    Kind regards,

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 7, 2011
  8. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest


    NORTON "Anti-phshing:" I contacted Norton and thy determned that I
    was running IE9(the latest) with Norton 2007, and there were
    compatibility issues that would be resolved by switching to N2011.
    Case is closed, I'm happy to report!

    KEYBOARD: At this point it MAY BE just an age thing with the
    buttons. The only reason I don't believ it is an age or wear issue is
    that the missed letters are ranom. In other words I'm ont constatnly
    missing only specific letters, which might int something spilled on
    that side of the keyboard, IE: the letters qwe, asdf, and zxcvb dont
    work. That is no the case. Words are missing RANDOM letters from all
    over the keyboard, including punctuation, and it's ot the ame letter

    So let's try to scratch our heads really hard here and look at what
    else may be causing this. I will try a USB keyboard if necessary and
    see how it goes, and would be genuinely surprised if there was more
    latency in that than in my current PS2.


    ChrisCoaster, Jul 8, 2011
  9. ChrisCoaster

    Paul Guest

    I'm having trouble coming up with a theory that fits the symptoms.

    If you had a bad USB cable, then chances are you'd hear "ding" as
    the keyboard is rediscovered. And if that happened, over and over
    again, I think you'd notice that.

    The keyboard doesn't recognize key presses immediately. It has
    a feature called "debounce". When you close a row and column scan
    lines, by depressing a key, the keyboard notices that on the
    first full scan cycle. But the keyboard waits for about three
    scan cycles. If the key has been consistent depressed for those
    three scan cycles, then it's declared as a "real key press". That
    kind of filtering is used, so multiple characters aren't generated
    by depressing a key. The contacts have a tendency to chatter at
    the millisecond level, and debounce prevents that kind of
    short term electrical noise from becoming an issue.

    The keyboard needs to time events (like the scan cycles), and may
    use a quartz crystal. If the quartz crystal is damaged (by dropping
    the keyboard on the floor), you could bust the crystal, and alter
    the operating frequency of the keyboard scanner. This would not necessarily be
    apparent from the outside. The key debounce function would run
    faster or slower than it used to.

    Since your keyboard is USB, the same crystal might be generating
    USB timing, and it might be harder to break it, without the USB
    interface suffering.

    If the keyboard was wireless, missing characters would be "normal".
    But wired should be pretty reliable.

    If you had an oscilloscope and multimeter, you might be
    able to figure it out :)


    You could also look at this from a software perspective. Things
    like touchpad drivers, when installed, they install a "shim"
    in an existing HID input device protocol stack. The driver intercepts
    a stream of characters, and interprets that as pointer movement,
    gestures and the like. On occasion, a Microsoft update will offer
    an inappropriate driver as an update for the computer, and that
    driver can interfere with a HID stream.

    But that's pretty far fetched.

    If you had a key logger running on the computer, that could place
    a shim in the protocol stack as well. But the person writing
    the keylogger would be a pretty poor programmer, if they
    left enough symptoms to make it apparent the system had
    been altered.

    Paul, Jul 9, 2011
  10. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest

    Thanks again Paul. I hope others on here are paying attention to your
    conduct on here as I am. You make sense out of complexities with

    I'm sorry I wasn't clear I thought I had clarified that my keyboard is
    PS2 - anachronistic I feel even for a 2008 year model HP PC. :) The
    mouse is USB and has exhibited no problems, except when I'm not paying
    attention and the mouse drifts off the pad - LOL!

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 9, 2011
  11. ChrisCoaster

    Paul Guest

    PS/2 would make it more feasible for there to be damage to
    a timing element in the keyboard. And that's because PS/2
    doesn't have the interface complexity that USB does. With
    USB, you need some way to work with cable clock rates,
    while PS/2 is a low speed serial protocol.

    To lose characters in your situation, you could

    1) Have them dropped, if they didn't meet the debounce
    timing requirements. A grossly damaged keyboard encoder
    chip, might be running at the wrong speed, and screwing
    up character detection, throwing away key presses.

    2) Failure on PS/2 interface. Something wrong with the
    PS/2 protocol.

    We get reports of keyboard corruption here occasionally,
    but usually the symptoms are "consistent" key remapping,
    implying some kind of row/column wire short in the keyboard.
    At least some of those effects come from "phantom" conditions
    caused by a failure in the row/column matrix. Occasionally,
    a person will type one character, and the computer will
    receive two other consistent characters.

    As far as I know, PS/2 doesn't have the same level of Plug
    and Play that USB does. So if the power was failing to
    the PS/2 keyboard, I don't know whether Windows "rediscovers"
    the PS/2 keyboard. Maybe that means your symptoms could
    be created by a broken wire in the keyboard cable.

    To test that theory, press the Caps Lock, so that at least
    one LED is lit on the keyboard. Now, as you type, does the
    LED go off for a fraction of a second, or does it stay on.
    If it stays on, then chances are the power to the keyboard
    is fine.

    It's too bad you can't swap keyboard and mouse ports for testing.
    I had one computer, where if you did that, the BIOS would
    declare a failure and reset some settings. Most annoying.

    An interesting test, would be to get one of these.

    "USB to Dual PS/2 Adapter Cable"

    That would allow you to connect some other keyboard to the PS/2
    port, so you have something guaranteed to work for controlling
    the computer. And then, you could take the suspect PS/2
    keyboard, connect it to the PS/2 to USB adapter, and plug the
    USB adapter into the computer. Then, you can carry out your
    typing test. You can have more than one keyboard connected to
    the computer at a time. The purpose of this kind of test,
    is to rule out a problem with the PS/2 port on the computer

    Such an adapter may not make the perfect permanent
    solution, because the BIOS may not accept input from the
    adapter while the computer is starting up. If you had only
    that adapter, you might not be able to enter the BIOS
    setup screen and make changes. But for ordinary keyboard
    input while the OS is running, it might be fine.

    The "blob" in the center of that adapter, contains a Chesen
    adapter chip. It's an actual processor, running its own
    firmware. That's how they've chosen to convert from
    one protocol to another, and for only $4.99 . I always
    find stuff like that to be amazing.

    Paul, Jul 9, 2011
  12. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest


    Performed that test just after reading it. Both numlock and Caps rock

    Even performed a test that actually raised a loud razz from PCs of the
    1990s: sumultaneusly engaging/disengaging num or scroll lock AND caps
    lock repeatedly. LOL! No beeps or other distress from this PC.

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 9, 2011
  13. ChrisCoaster snuck on to your hard drive to scribble:
    I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, of us value Paul's
    contributions. I know I do. He regularly provides not just
    experience, but extensive technical detail when we come up blank on our
    searches for answers.

    Personally, I'm still a fan of PS/2. It frees up the line on the USB
    and it doesn't hurt. Any speed gains using USB aren't really
    significant enough to warrant the change.

    Just curious, the keyboard wasn't used as a weapon against the comp,
    was it? :)

    Also, if you did say so, I may have missed it, but did you test another
    keyboard? Doing so helps to narrow things down.

    -There are some who call me...

    "You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because
    you might not get there."
    - Yogi Berra
    James D Andrews, Jul 9, 2011
  14. ChrisCoaster

    me again Guest

    On older systems PS2 would work with the BIOS but USB would not.

    Good keyboards have n-key rollover, otherwise one key down (or stuck) can
    affect the next key.

    Does the OP see the problem if typing with one finger only?
    me again, Jul 9, 2011
  15. ChrisCoaster

    ChrisCoaster Guest


    oh say can you see by the dawn's ealy light?

    what so proudly we hauiled by the twilight's last gleaming

    whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight

    o'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streamin


    (ahem) you get the pint. It still miss letters, as I am a pretty fast
    one-fingered typist.

    ChrisCoaster, Jul 10, 2011
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