Justifiable?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by The Real Truth MVP, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. The Real Truth MVP

    Aardvark Guest

    I don't know. Can you???
     
    Aardvark, Jun 16, 2010
    #21
    1. Advertisements

  2. The Real Truth MVP

    Aardvark Guest

    WTF?????
     
    Aardvark, Jun 16, 2010
    #22
    1. Advertisements

  3. The Real Truth MVP

    Aardvark Guest

    WTF?????
     
    Aardvark, Jun 16, 2010
    #23
  4. The Real Truth MVP

    Aardvark Guest

    WTF?????
     
    Aardvark, Jun 16, 2010
    #24
  5. The Real Truth MVP

    Aardvark Guest

    WTF?????
     
    Aardvark, Jun 16, 2010
    #25
  6. The Real Truth MVP

    richard Guest

    Remember Rodney King? Who was beaten by six or more officers while on the
    ground? They were all highly trained and seasoned cops too.

    Since when do you handcuff a person for a jaywalking citation?
    Let alone the person you're talking to is being perhaps a tad beligerant
    and uncooperative? I'd say this cop was looking for a fight and he made one
    happen.

    A true profssional would have had some kind words to say to the ladies
    about the reasons behind using the overhead crosswalk, yada yada, have a
    nice day ladies and go on. Not this cop. He's gotta show off to them and
    anyone watching who the damn boss is around here. This is big bad white cop
    in a black neighborhood. If he's done this scene once, he's done it before
    plenty. He oughta get his ass kicked off the department.
     
    richard, Jun 16, 2010
    #26
  7. The Real Truth MVP

    Jordon Guest

    Did you really watch the video and read the account of what
    happened? One of the jaywalkers walked away from him and he
    tried to detain her. Should he just let her go? Of course
    not. So if physical force was necessary for writing a jaywalking
    ticket, is it at that point he should have let her go? When he
    tried to detain her one of her friends tried to *physically*
    intervene. She's the one that got punched.
    You've never jaywalked in Seattle have you?
    Black neighborhood. White neighborhood. Doesn't matter in
    Seattle.
    And you know better? Because you were a mall cop?
     
    Jordon, Jun 16, 2010
    #27
  8. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    You are assuming and pretending and espousing that the officer was
    hassling blacks, when the reality is that the officer was simply trying
    to issue a citation for an infraction of a law.

    I'm operating from the assumption that we should believe that he was not
    hassling. The officer's beat was a black neighborhood. The street in
    question was yet another street named Martin Luther King.
    Maybe the young women in this case have been conditioned by their black
    peers and their black friends and their black parents to disrespect the
    law in general without any good reason.

    You seem to be saying that it is appropriate for all black people to
    disrespect the law because all black people have been so mistreated by
    the law.

    I don't believe that is an appropriate assumption. I don't believe that
    the law should be assumed to be at fault here when the preliminary
    evidence is that the women were at fault and disruptive when they should
    have just accepted their citation for their infraction.
    Why would you assume/ believe/ assert/ that anything like that is going
    on here?
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #28
  9. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    The person was not being handcuffed for jaywalking. The belligerent
    assaulting person was being handcuffed for that assaultive behavior and
    resisting the detention to be cited. The second video link looks to me
    like she started out with her trivial infraction and blew it up into an
    confrontational incident for absolutely no reason.

    I'm betting that when the total picture is developed that it will turn
    into a couple of hostile young black women acting like thugs instead of
    like the 'ladies' that you mention below.
    You are dreaming up your own screenplay here.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #29
  10. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    I think that it - racial hassling of which you speak - has happened in
    the past and must still happen too often - but that the 'institutions' -
    the police forces and departments - are structured/ designed/ regulated/
    to *NOT* so behave. I say that the police forces of today tend to be
    racially diverse at the highest levels and trained to defuse the racial
    attitudes that arise from those young people who have a 'sensation' of
    being persecuted when they are not.

    I have seen a lot of young people - generally black as opposed to Asian
    or Chicano - with some kind of racial attitudes which are completely
    inappropriate for the situation. No one has persecuted or mistreated or
    has been 'racially insensitive' to them.

    They - those young black people - should be getting along just like
    everyone else, but instead they are acting out with an attitude.

    If you haven't seen a lot of that behavior, then you have your eyes closed.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #30
  11. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    Yes it does happen. It also gets claimed to happen when it didn't happen.

    That is why many many police departments require that the patrol car
    have a video camera filming the entire encounter rather than the tidbit
    for the blogosphere that is being ballyhooed right now.

    That is also why many cops today behave quite a lot better than the cops
    of the past, because they know that their actions are going to be
    reviewed by their superiors.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #31
  12. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    I disagree. I think that what you describe rarely/uncommonly happens.
    The cops kick down a lot of black people's doors because there are a lot
    of black drug dealers. The cops kick down a lot of brown and yellow
    people's doors because there are also a lot of Mexican and Asian drug
    dealers. The cops kick down a lot of white people's doors because there
    are a lot of white drug dealers.

    It is unfortunate when drug busts go bad -- but I believe that LE
    lawenforcement doesn't like to make those mistakes -- not that there is
    reckless disregard for human and property rights.
    No. I see this in RL reallife. The frequency depends a lot on where I am.
    Sometimes the TV and movies exaggerate the hassling problem rather than
    accurately portray it.
    That incident is better described here in this blog article:

    http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/05/spd_probing_video-taped_arrest.php
    Seattle Police are conducting an internal investigation into possible
    abuse of a robbery suspect

    The preliminary investigation is based mostly on the amateur video,
    since there wasn't a departmental vid. A police procedures expert's
    preliminary opinion was that he could speculate on excuses, but that the
    vid doesn't appear to give any excuse for the officer's behavior.

    The officer was taken off-duty and he has since publicly tearfully
    apologized for his mistakes, both physical and verbal. This suspect was
    Mexican, not black.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #32
  13. The Real Truth MVP

    NotMe Guest

    http://www.zimbio.com/Cheye+Calvo/articles/4/Cheye+Calvo+Mayor+Berwyn+Heights+MD+Innocent

    http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=116362

    In another incident the DPD 'unhorsed' a disable drive (impounded his car
    and left him and his family by the side of the road) even though a family
    member hand carried the missing insurance card to the scene.

    In another a hot shot DPD cop prevented a family from reaching the side of
    their dying mother/mother in law over a botched traffic stop.

    Texas state trooper tazered an 89 year old grand mother at a traffic stop.
    Justification he was afraid for his life.

    Dallas constable's office has a swat team that has been up to a lot of
    expensive high jinks.

    I lived in LA for over a year doing tech work on the cell systems. Lot of
    night work. If I'd only had a video camera.
     
    NotMe, Jun 17, 2010
    #33
  14. Yes I agree.

    --
    The Real Truth http://pcbutts1-therealtruth.blogspot.com/
    *WARNING* Please Do NOT follow any advice given by the Trolls listed
    below. Trolls CAN NOT help you. They latch on to my posts like leeches.
    David H Lipman, Peter Foldes, Barry Schwarz, PA Bear, Leythos.
     
    The Real Truth MVP, Jun 17, 2010
    #34
  15. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    The reasons the public thinks they know who the 'oppressor' is is
    because vids like these two examples spread virally all over the
    internet; whereas any vids which might get taken of cops doing good
    instead of bad are of absolutely no interest to anyone.

    Consequently here we are talking and talking and talking about apparent
    cop misdeeds as if they were a normal occurrence, when probably one of
    the incidents wasn't even the misdeed as it was presented and the other
    one was a case of mistaken suspect identification who was mistreated by
    a cop which cop presumably had some kind of racial prejudices.

    A lot of otherwise very nice people also harbor racial prejudicial
    thinking that might come out in a stressful situation. A lot of black
    people harbor anti-white racial prejudices.

    I don't believe that the cop in this second example was mistreating the
    Mexican suspect because he was a Mexican, I believe the cop was
    mistreating the Mexican suspect because the cop thought he was an actual
    perpetrator (who was also Mexican).
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #35
  16. My ex husband is black, I am white, we lived in an upscale white
    neighborhood. He would never like to go to the local grocery store because
    every time he did and paid by check they would always triple check his ID,
    phone number and bank account info. When I go using the same checking
    account they never check me. When we went together and it happened I
    questioned the checker and she did not have an answer. It stopped after I
    filed a complaint with the store.



    --
    The Real Truth http://pcbutts1-therealtruth.blogspot.com/
    *WARNING* Please Do NOT follow any advice given by the Trolls listed
    below. Trolls CAN NOT help you. They latch on to my posts like leeches.
    David H Lipman, Peter Foldes, Barry Schwarz, PA Bear, Leythos.
     
    The Real Truth MVP, Jun 17, 2010
    #36
  17. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    For what it is worth, the police chief of the SPD Seattle Police Dept
    that the offending officer belongs is Chief John Diaz, whose ethnicity
    is Hispanic.

    Probably (some of) the black populace of Seattle believes that
    Hispanic/brown ethnicity of the police chief is why any black violators
    are unfairly treated - they are the wrong color.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #37
  18. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re The New Jim Crow -

    I haven't read the book, but I read several reviews, by amateur
    reviewers as well as professionals.

    Michelle Alexander is black and a professor and a legal scholar, but I
    don't think she/ her book/ would convince me that the problem with all
    of the black criminals who are incarcerated is some vast white man's
    conspiracy to subjugate and shackle the black man.

    There are plenty of other people who have analyzed why there are so many
    black criminals and how it relates to the black culture, not a white
    conspiracy. So, I say 'Hogwash!" to this black scholar expert who is
    apparently a very good writer. I would have to read the book to rebut
    it, but one critic took note that she calls black drug dealers 'people
    who have drug problems'. How quaint. I guess you /would/ say that a
    convicted felon drug dealer had a drug problem.

    The reason there are so many black prisoners and parolees is because
    there are so many black offenders. Blaming that condition on everyone
    else is upside down.

    Bill Cosby isn't a legal scholar, but he seems to have a better idea of
    how come the black community is overly represented in our prisons and
    our welfare rosters.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #38
  19. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    Willie Williams took over and became the first black LAPD chief
    replacing Daryl Gates resignation following the '92 riots - after
    Williams (also) being the first black Philadelphia PD chief. Gates
    reigned from '78 to '92 and there was a significant culture of the type
    you describe that developed over those years. Also a lot of good LAPD
    work and officers.

    But the fact that there was a higher percentage of bad cop acts in LA
    from the influences for 14 years starting 32 years ago, doesn't mean
    that a lot more balance hasn't been achieved since then. This is 2010
    you know.

    The conditions that prevailed in the '67 movie Heat of the Night with
    Rod Steiger and Sidney Poitier aren't the conditions that prevail today.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #39
  20. The Real Truth MVP

    Mike Easter Guest

    I do believe that there is a 'modest' amount of unequal process; not
    that there is a vast white conspiracy. Maybe Michelle's book will help
    fix that inequality.

    Some unequal process can be seen in the fact that there is more
    enforcement of the crack cocaine of the black dealers' culture which has
    more poor than the white powder of the wealthy some of whom are white,
    but also some black. Perhaps that is because the drug users who are
    white can afford the drugs they use and therefore there is less drug
    related crime for the money, such as robbery and murder.

    However, I think you will agree that rich blacks, such as athletes, are
    often more inclined to act like thugs than rich white athletes. Why is
    that? Presumably the culture - the background.

    I also am aware that the sentenced and served time is greater for the
    black criminals than white, as well as more capital punishment.

    The problem of the representation is not white vs black -- it is the
    difference between having money and not having money. If you are black
    and have money, you get good representation. If you are white and don't
    have money, you get the public defender. In that sense, justice and
    injustice are both blind.

    We haven't even started talking about men vs women in this issue, who
    are also enforced and prosecuted unequally.
     
    Mike Easter, Jun 17, 2010
    #40
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.