JPG vs TIFF Resolution Test

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Jerry McG, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Jerry McG

    Eric Witte Guest

    Eric Witte, Dec 12, 2003
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  2. Jerry McG

    Noel Guest

    Correction. They are all 100% crap.
     
    Noel, Dec 12, 2003
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  3. What are the rules? I have to wait until Saturday to do another with
    the new lens and a ruler. Here are two I did about a week ago (best
    results are outside).[/QUOTE]

    The rules for both are listed on the websites themselves. But as a quick
    reference...

    For the penny challenge: To participate in the Penny Challenge using any
    digtial camera (or scanned film), place a penny in the middle of a picture
    with a clearly marked 36 inch wide field of view. All images shown are
    directly out-of-camera with no post processing.
    http://www.pbase.com/pennychallenge/samplescene

    For the resolution test: To use for comparison: print target in color
    200mm square, shoot from 2.50 meters away, using an effective focal length
    of 50mm (in 35mm equivalent). http://www.pbase.com/image/23634929
     
    George Preddy, Dec 12, 2003
  4. Jerry McG

    Eric Witte Guest

    The rules for both are listed on the websites themselves. But as a quick
    Oh. That is why they are so small and look like crap.
     
    Eric Witte, Dec 12, 2003
  5. :^)

    If you don't mind posting an 300D pic (no post processing please) I'd be
    happy to add a crop to the site.

    How are your adventures in printing coming along, any luck?
     
    George Preddy, Dec 13, 2003
  6. Jerry McG

    Guest Guest

    It was a foveon comment.... I have a 300D and I know how good it's images
    are.
     
    Guest, Dec 15, 2003
  7. Now it's "insane" to say the X3 sees full color. Do you understand how
    Bayers work?
     
    George Preddy, Dec 15, 2003
  8. Jerry McG

    JPS Guest

    In message <brkmg4$as7$>,
    It doesn't. It's supposed to, but it doesn't. Lots of math is needed
    to get its poor color rendition.
    Yes, to some extent (you seem to be the only person here who doesn't
    understand them at all), and I know that the average chroma of any small
    block of pixels is more accurate than with a Foveon, with the better
    sensors and algorithms.
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 16, 2003
  9.  
    George Preddy, Dec 16, 2003
  10. What difference could that make even if true? With only 6M sensors you are
    hosed from the start.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 16, 2003
  11. Jerry McG

    JPS Guest

    In message <brms73$rk4$>,
    That's what matters most. Your SD9 might be better at detecting
    red-green-red in the space of three pixels, but the reddish brown zone
    (which comes closer to actually being seen) will be more accurate with a
    10D.
    With only 3.43M pixels, combined with tiny-aperture sampling, you are
    not even capable of producing a contiguous image, unless it is out of
    focus.

    --
     
    JPS, Dec 16, 2003
  12. Err no. look at your pictures George. They are the crap ones.
     
    Manfred von Richthofen, Dec 17, 2003
  13. The 10D is massively outgunned in all color channels, the SD9 has...

    230% the Red
    230% the Blue
    120% the Green

    ....sensors.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 17, 2003
  14. Jerry McG

    JPS Guest

    In message <brphji$i43$>,
    But they are liras, compared to Canon dollars. There are more of them,
    but they are located in triplets, which means less spatial witnesses,
    and they have weaker color recognition in the absolute.
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 17, 2003
  15. Jerry McG

    Noel Guest

    So THATS why the images are all skewed colour-wise. Thanks for
    'schooling us' again, Steve.
     
    Noel, Dec 19, 2003
  16. Bayer paradigm. An interpolated JPEG is close to the same sized as a
    losslessly compressed (done by default) Foveon RAW file. 4-5MBs average vs
    6-7MBs average. Certainly not worth sacrificing pro quality images, when
    the who point is pro quality images.
    Why would you ever save any image format? Do you keep only a wallet size
    print and throw away the negatives with film?
    Only an amateur would save an actual image format, except possibly as a
    thumbnail. Just save the RAW file. I cannot imagine saving SD9 16-bit
    TIFs, the largest of which approach 100MBs per image file, when I could save
    the 6-8MB RAW file with the settings embedded and only create an image
    format at time of export for printing. Soon after printing, image formats
    simply get deleted. Just ouput another if the pro service loses it.
     
    George Preddy, Dec 24, 2003
  17. Jerry McG

    Steve Guest

    Why this crap again?

    For gods sake, your camera has a resolution of 2263x1512 pixels

    2263 x 1512 x 3 (RGB) x 2 (16 bit) = 19.57MB

    Any file size bigger than that has been interpolated.

    What on earth are these 100MB TIFFs you keep going on about?


    Steve
     
    Steve, Dec 24, 2003
  18. A 6MP-interpolated DSLR only has 1.5MP scaled up to 6. The SD9 produces
    3.43MP and 14MP-interpolated.
    The SD9/10 also can output interpolated images using the same standard of
    interpolation that Bayer cameras always use. These 14MP images from the SD9
    when saved in16-bit TIF form, approach 100MBs each. That's quite a lot to
    save, I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to save/keep 16-bit TIF image
    files on hand, as a rule. A well implemented professional RAW workflow
    allows for saving only the RAW files with embedded settings, even many
    different sets of settings.

    Saving TIFs? That's crazy. With a pro setup, actual image formats are only
    temporary files created for printing, then deleted, they're not for saving.
    Why would anyone save prints (TIFs) instead of negatives (RAW files)?
     
    George Preddy, Dec 24, 2003
  19. Jerry McG

    JPS Guest

    In message <bsaqio$lko$>,
    6-7MBs average for Foveon RAW files? That's compressed from 3.43MP *
    3Bytesperpixel * 1.5Bytesperchannel = 15.44MB. With all the
    high-contrasting neighboring pixels, you shouldn't expect to compress
    much less than about 60%. This indicates that the SD9 probably isn't
    using anywhere near 12 bits for some channels. When I get more time, I
    am going to rewrite DCRaw so that it only outputs the RAW data without
    any scaling or black point correction, to see exactly what range of
    values these .x3f files actually have.
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 24, 2003
  20. Jerry McG

    JPS Guest

    In message <bsaqio$lko$>,
    You are talking about the bloated 4x MP interpolated (4536*3024) output,
    then, from the RAW converter. Why would you even mention that? Is it
    because you hope to fool someone into thinking that the SD9 captures
    that much data? A 16-bit TIFF from a normal 2268*1512 SD9 image is
    20.56MB plus the header (or less, if LZW lossless compression is used).
    --
     
    JPS, Dec 24, 2003
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