Job ops after certification

Discussion in 'MCSA' started by Ka Khiong Kwok, Oct 26, 2003.

  1. Hi, I'm booking mine in this week (70-210) but I'm just
    sceptical about the whole certification thing, especially
    in relations to job opportunities.
    Coming from a poor background, I thought that my degree
    was going to get me some where work wise, only to find
    that on completion with my degree, your average HR agent
    just plays B-ball with my CV. It makes me think as to why
    I'd even bother with Uni in the first place. As such I am
    equally sceptical about my prospects after completing this
    certification myself. I keep hearing about a lot of people
    doing this and still not finding work (they ended up
    changing careers paths altogether).
    So the point is: how many of you guys ended up being
    better off after obtaining this certification?

    Just curious. I'm still going to do this though, my
    feelings is that knowledge is useful is a good thing
    regardless but I get the feeling there's no RoI in this.

    Thanks.

    Regards,

    Ka Kwok
     
    Ka Khiong Kwok, Oct 26, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ka Khiong Kwok

    Bay Guest

    No certification can guarantee you will find a job buddy. It just makes
    yourelf a little more competitive in the market and trying to get the
    employer attention to look at your resume rather than tossing it into the
    garbage bin right away. Experience and a good reference from your previous
    employers are very important and those play a big part in the consideration
    of the hiring process. Have a few nice certifications listing on your
    resume are just trying to get yourself a higher chance to be called for an
    interview. I am sure there are other people who think another way..like my
    friend..he is unemployed and I told him to get some self study at the
    meantime and he refused. He claimed what's the point of getting a higher
    education if nobody want him in the first place and he said he is not going
    to invest anymore money for his education. I told him to do what he thinks
    is the best for him. Honestly speaking, for a guy like him who is almost 28
    yrs old...just graduated and w/o any related working experience is very hard
    to find a job. I reviewed his resume and I don't see anything impressive
    except the bachelor degree. I recommend him to take some certifications and
    he refused because he said those are uselss.

    I am sorry..back to your case... I think you better take the
    certification... no matter it helps or not... you will learn something,
    right?
     
    Bay, Oct 26, 2003
    #2
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  3. Dear Bay,

    Y'know, your buddy and I are in the same boat. Nearly 28
    and no cert. The thing that annoyed me was that no one
    back at uni advised us to take on this certification.
    That's the thing that really PO a lot of guys like me.
    There's a lot dissonance amongst the people I know that
    the unis are out to make a buck and really have no
    interest in giving any real credit or merit to the degree
    we shelled out for.

    I'm not saying that this is the uni's fault but let's face
    it: guys like me struggle economically to get through our
    studies and at the end of it, most HR firms just laughs at
    our degrees. We might as well have completed a TAFE cert
    and grab these industry certs to achieve our goals.

    Anyway, thanks for the perspective though. As I said, I am
    going to do this, but I am highly sceptical about my RoI.
    I'll probably end up doing either a accounting or
    electronics cert and end up with higher employment
    prospects.

    The difference I guess is that I have at least four years
    experience with a POS company, have dealt with Windows
    2000 Pro installations, know a fair bit of hardware, and
    have dealt with barcoding technologies. Even then though,
    I'm still having major problems in the job search
    department. I'm even trying for a teaching job in Korea.
    Just for something to do while I get my cert, and then
    we'll see.

    On the plus side though is that now I've been through it,
    I'm guiding those around me who needs a bit of advise (so
    to speak) and I'm sharing my experience around.

    Appreciate the response. Just another quick Q, which
    elective do you recommend?

    I've dealt with SQL server 7 before but I'm not too
    certain how sought after that really is. I was actually
    trying to get SAP certification and almost had a cardiac
    when I saw the price (well, not quite true: I swore in
    three different languages and then almost had a cardiac).

    Have a great one, hopefully you're no where near the fire.

    Ka.
     
    Ka Khiong Kwok, Oct 26, 2003
    #3
  4. Ka Khiong Kwok

    zMacabre Guest

    Hi all

    I feel the same way too.

    After graduating with a Biz Mgt Degree I felt its all but
    juz paper chase.

    I'll trying out teaching, haven't got a chance to have a
    class room still... anyway you guys are right.. having
    options are better than no options.

    Good luck to all!
    I
     
    zMacabre, Oct 26, 2003
    #4
  5. Ka Khiong Kwok

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    Hi. Good email. And nice replies so far. It's always refreshing to see
    good manners on the ng's. (forgive the spelling mistakes. my news client
    has no spell check)

    anyways. my 2 cents. the cert is not going to get people bangging on your
    door asking if you can work for them. the reason for this is, check out
    the link:

    http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/certified.asp

    But as mr. bay said. it makes you more marketable as a potential
    employee. many people say certification is useless. usually those are
    people with work experience who would rather spend 48 hours straight
    playing unreal tournament than study for any sort of exam. so always
    consider the source of your information before you digest it. personally,
    i think anyone willing to invest time & effort & money to better their
    chances of getting a job is a step in the right direction.

    as far as real world goes. certification is expensive. the certs that i
    know, get the job first and then get their work to pay for it.

    there is the problem of "the paper mcse's". if you are going to go
    through certification, try to be the better person and don't add to
    problem.


    RY, MCDA
     
    Rowdy Yates, Oct 26, 2003
    #5
  6. Ka Khiong Kwok

    Bay Guest

    University didn't advise me back then either. Tell you a little bit
    background about myself. I graduated in 1998 with a degree in Accounting
    and Finance. I was young and I wasn't matured enough. I fooled around alot
    and tried to finish my degree asap without any concerns my grades were good
    or bad. Eventually, I graduated in 3 yrs with a low GPA. I had no working
    experience at all not even part time. I was 21. I sent out tons of resumes
    and I didn't receive any response. I tried to hiring agency. Some of those
    just spent 1 min to eyeball my resume and told me to come back after I have
    some working experience. I was so frustrated. If I have working experience,
    I wouldn't bother the hiring agency for help. Finally, I got my first job
    working as a temp. My starting pay rate was so low...it was $8.5/hr. What
    can I say? I had no working experience and I should feel lucky somebody was
    willing to try me out. I suffered alot from that company, my supervisor
    abused me alot and I was so unhappy. I didn't say anything because my
    qualification won't allow me to talk back even my supervisor was an old lady
    who didn't have the professionalism and "NO DEGREE". I met my friend there
    one day and he noticed that I was a hard working person and he referred me
    to his buddy's bro. His buddy brother is a Director of Accounting for
    another company. One day, I received a call and he asked me whether I would
    like to have an interview from the Director. I said OK and I got the job. I
    was a temp again for 5 months and I finally got my full time job eventually
    in year 2000. My title was accounting assistant. But still, my boss still
    gave me alot of bad time. He said new grad like me just like baby...didn't
    know to do anything. He thought I was childish and stupid. He offered me
    $12.50/hour. Again, I didn't say anything because I didn't have the "power"
    and "qualification" to talk back. I was so mad inside and I told myself "you
    will change how you look at me someday and you will beg me to stay!" I
    worked so hard and I tired to ignore the way being treated with disrespect
    by my boss and my co-worker. My boss started the way he treated me in 2001
    because he said I was getting better. In 2002, he recommended me to take
    care of the IT stuff for the company too besides working for accounting and
    I did it. I took my A+ in 2002, Net+, i-net+, Win 2k server and Win XP Pro
    this year and I am going to be MCSA soon. At the meantime, my job duties
    changed so much and my boss gave me a title of "Information Systems
    Specialist". I review and supervised staff with their entries to the
    database, troubleshoot computer hardware/software/network/security problems.
    My boss is paying me almost $20/hour now and he said he knew he is
    under-paying me. He asked me whether I would like to stay next yr if the
    company wasn't able to afford my raise. He urged me to stay if possible. I
    told him I would stay because I want to pass my CPA exam, MCSE and MCDBA
    next year, so I don't want to much change. He said he will try to offer me
    an accepted rate next yr. My boss is like my mentor and friend now rather
    than the asshole when I first met him. And the co-worker who used to give me
    a bad time now because my qualifications are now higher than him. When he
    came for my help, now he knocked instead of just come straight to me and
    "order" me to do things.

    I am telling you this because I want you to know that it is really hard for
    undergraduates who w/o any experience to find a job. Even you got one, it
    is mostly a shitty and underpaid job. You have to work as hard as you could
    and don't give up no matter what. Try to earn some certifications during
    your spare time. I am very sure you will get abused by your boss and
    co-workers because you are a newbie to them. Hold your anger....once you
    have enough experience and qualifications. You will earn respect from them
    and they will beg you to stay. Then you can negotiate your pay rate with
    your boss or your future employer and you can really tell them what you can
    contribute to their company.

    If you have experience in SQL already, maybe you can try to be MCDBA. Certs
    are expensive but I think they worth it impression wise. Maybe your future
    employer is willing to invest on you and pay for your exam fees. My company
    is paying for all my textbooks and exams currently. It is always good trying
    to be a mulittask staff in this economy. The more you can do, the higher
    chance you get hired.

    Good luck to you and msyelf.

    Billy
     
    Bay, Oct 26, 2003
    #6
  7. Thanks Rowdy,

    Yeah, I know. The sad thing was that a lot of guys like me
    bust a gut completing the degree, thinking that our degree
    is going to be more looked well upon then someone's cert.
    We then come out and find it's the other way around.

    I know about the guys that gets their company to pay for
    their certs, their the same guys that end up getting their
    company to pay for their MBAs as well. Lucky SOBs. ;')

    The catch 22 with guys like me though is that in order for
    us to work, we need the cert, however in order for us to
    work (in IT), we need the cert. That's basically the
    reason why I'm going for admin and teaching jobs now.
    Otherwise, I'm just stuck at home tweedling my thumbs.

    I guess the real reason why I ask is this: I know guys
    who've complete an Electronics cert 1 who're snapped up
    pretty much immediately by companies. Now, the guys cert
    was a positive RoI. I'm not expecting it to be the same,
    but I am wondering just how many people out there found it
    easier to find work in IT when they have achieved their
    certification, or I am just paying another guy's holiday
    to the Maldives again?

    Regards,

    Ka.
     
    Ka Khiong Kwok, Oct 26, 2003
    #7
  8. I've been following this thread, and I figure I'll throw my 2 cents in...

    In 2000 I decided to re-train for a career in IT, not for the money but
    because I truly enjoyed computers, so I went to a tech school on my own and
    studied to get certified. Mind you I could not get a job in IT w/o a degree
    or certs or experience, so I took a job through a temporary agency doing
    data entry and phone customer service. It was a small shop that had no IT
    people, so I would offer my assistance when machines broke down or they
    needed software installed, etc. . I was still going to class, and I was able
    to get my first cert, A+ 30 days into the program after that I got my CNA.
    By this time the company I was temping for decided to hire me full time,
    gave me a pseudo IT title and some other cruddy stuff to do, but it paid
    descent. I still to my classes and studied and I got my first couple of
    MCP's. Then I saw a job open up with our city as a computer tech, but now I
    had some experience, so applied and was hired on as a tech, demotion in
    title but better pay and much larger shop. I finished up my MCSA and MCSE
    and took some other stuff along the way, and now I volunteered to help with
    the server stuff as well as keeping my trouble tickets up, and then the city
    gave me Admin Jobs to do as well as some teaching type responsibilities. Now
    I'm possibly going to be hired by a CTEC (final interview next week) for
    almost double what I started at with the city. I'm also now finishing up my
    BS degree in Information Systems.

    But to get this far, I had to take a non-IT job and finesse my way into it.
    I'm not saying it will work for everyone, but it is way to get your foot in
    the door.
     
    Jeffrey W. Roach, Oct 26, 2003
    #8
  9. Ka Khiong Kwok

    Bay Guest

    I hear you, Jeff... the same situation applied to me.
    Good luck to you.

    Billy
     
    Bay, Oct 27, 2003
    #9
  10. Guys, thanks for the perspective.

    Regards,

    Ka.
     
    Ka Khiong Kwok, Oct 27, 2003
    #10
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